I thank the Deputy for the question and for the earlier debate. It is going to be a long evening and we are both here for the duration, which is right and proper given it is such an important topic. I want to put on record again my commitment to easing the financial burden on students and families, and my commitment to reducing the cost of education in a way that is sustainable, and not just temporary but permanent; that is equitable and fair, and gives the most to those who need the most; and that is targeted, so we do not just do one-size-fits-all, and that we actually say that we will find the people who really need help and give them real help. Of course, we are going to deliver other measures as well, and we commit to all of our programme for Government commitments. However, I believe in targeted measures. I believe that those who need more help should get more help. That is a fundamental principle, and if anyone in the House disagrees with me on that, they should please explain why. We know that temporary measures were introduced in the last three budgets and that they provided welcome relief at the time. We also know, and it should be no surprise to anyone in this House albeit it is being portrayed as such, that they were never designed to be permanent solutions. I am approaching budget 2026 by considering what we can do on a permanent basis. That is in line with what is happening across the Government, including the Minister for housing, who was mentioned in the question, and all the other Ministers. We are all considering what we can do on a permanent basis. It is also true - the debate tonight has shed light on this - that the costs that students experience are not just about the fees. Of course, the fees are a significant cost but there is also accommodation, transport, materials, books and the income disregard around part-time jobs. There is an awful lot more to this. That is why, put simply, there is no silver bullet. I had a cost-of-education event at Croke Park in April where I met student representatives and many other stakeholders, such as access officers and people who advocate for disadvantaged groups. I listened carefully to them, I listened carefully to the debate tonight, I listened to the debates on radio in recent weeks and I will listen to people over the summer when I continue that consultation. I will publish an options paper that sets out the choices. There are choices and they are not easy choices. We have to take ownership of those choices and bring them forward in the budget. I look forward to that debate.
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I did not say that.
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I reiterate what I have said already. No decisions have been made. There is a budgetary arithmetic that has been spelled out by me and others, including the Tánaiste, the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for public expenditure. It has been spelled out multiple times since that decision was made by the Government. That is the situation we find ourselves in, and that is where we will work towards in the budget. That is normal. If we look at last year, the temporary €1,000 reduction that has been applied in the last three academic years was not announced until October. This is not a new situation. That is why the Deputy’s party had a motion down last year and the year before. This is not novel, unique or unprecedented. This is actually the same situation that prevailed in the last three summers. I will go into the budget, as will my colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, for the Department, and all the other Ministers across all the other Departments, and fight tooth and nail to get the best outcome for our stakeholders, in my case, students. Of course, we will. That is what we do. However, I cannot predict the outcome of that process. I cannot give the Deputy the budget results in July when the budget is in October, and she knows that. The Deputy also knows the situation in the North, to which I referred earlier in the debate. Her own party has student fees of €5,600, double what they are at their highest in the Republic, and is talking about putting them higher. That is either partitionist or hypocritical, or both.
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It is your party.
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Actually, that is exactly what happened. It was said and it happened in the last three budgets. Exactly the same process is playing out in this year as it did in every other year. I have listened with great sympathy and great interest to, and I have taken note of the detail of, many of the cases raised in debates in the House and elsewhere and a great number of students and their families are already receiving significant supports. Of course, €1,000 is a lot of money and of course they are paying additional fees, but we have to acknowledge that a huge number of students are not paying fees at all or in full because there are already such significant supports. The income thresholds is €115,000. That is a reasonably good salary. It is not controversial to say that. The threshold for student supports is €115,000.
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Everybody under that threshold will get some support and many will get far more fulsome support. Sixty-five thousand students will get a full grant support from Student Universal Support Ireland, SUSI. One hundred and forty-three thousand students will have their tuition fees paid by the State. Those thresholds go up, again and again. I intend to revisit all of those measures in October for the following year also.
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I acknowledge the Deputy's integrity and interest in this subject. We have had a number of discussions on it in the past. The Deputy commented in the previous debate. Indeed, Deputy McGettigan did also, in fairness. Both Deputies, as spokespersons for their respective parties, engaged in the process constructively and I welcome that. I would ask that we continue that engagement. When I publish the cost-of-education paper this summer, I would invite both of the Deputies and their parties to make submissions to it. Let us make them evidence based. Let us have the debate because it is a debate. Choices are not easy. This is the basis of politics. How do we distribute scarce resources? What decisions do we make about them? Who deserves them more? That is a reasonably strong political ethos to have and there are different answers to that depending on the different political philosophies. Let us engage on that, honestly and robustly, and have the debate because it is important. Let me, again, reiterate my 100% commitment to the programme for Government in all its forms. It includes multiple commitments. It includes a commitment to continue to reduce the student contribution fee, of course, which I will do over the lifetime of the Government in a financially sustainable way. It also includes commitments to improve SUSI grants and SUSI supports. I intend to go further than that and reform the system. I also want to look at what is impactful, and other measures, targeted or non-targeted, and what is the policy objective that they result in. I will produce the cost-of-education options paper which I have mentioned. I have also asked my Department to commission a piece of research about what are the levers that we can pull and what are the results of those levers. Ultimately, it is easy to call for things, but why, and what policy outcome do we want to see from them? That is an important question worthy of consideration. That piece of research will not be for this year's budget. That will be over the next 12 months but it will inform our decisions over the term ahead. In the meantime, I will go into budget 2026 this October fighting for students and families. I have heard different stories through the Chamber. No student should miss out on a chance of education for financial want and if there are students in that situation, I need to see what is going wrong and why the system is failing. In circumstances where we have never paid more grants, we have never had such a high income threshold and we have never made so many contributions, how are people falling through the net? I accept that some are but I want to hear the detail of those cases so we can fix them.
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I appreciate that. It is worth putting on record some of the increases that are already kicking in for this September. The threshold for 100% payment of the student contribution grant - this is aside from SUSI maintenance grants, which are paid out to help with the living expenses of students - rises from €55,924 to €64,315. That means that 44,500 extra people will now avail of a full student fees on top of the maintenance grant. The 50% student contribution grant - the half-fees paid - threshold goes from €62,000 to €71,300. Almost 4,000 extra people will come into that net. The €500 student contribution grant threshold will go from €100,000 to €115,000. Curiously, last year that measure was there and while 40,000 people were estimated to be eligible for it, only 18,000 applied. I do not know what is going on there. Perhaps there is a bit of work to do. I certainly intend to do it over the summer to highlight awareness of those measures. It begs the question. It is something we need to interrogate. I will run awareness campaigns and will engage with TDs in terms of getting information out there but we need to make sure people get the support that is available because a lot of support is being made available and not availed of.
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I acknowledge that. We have heard talk in the past week about a scheduled increase and a plan and an increase and an announcement of increases. Let us be clear. We have had none of that. There has been a lot of hyperbole. Some of the Opposition leaders and others have hyped it up a little bit. I suggest they listen to the interview that I gave on RTÉ and maybe read the transcript. I have a copy and I could make it available to anyone in the House who wants it. Let us be clear what I said. I said that we have a budgetary situation where the cost-of-living package that was available last year is not available this year, so we will look at the question again. On what do we do instead - I am very clear that I said that - we engage on the cost of education, we explore the budget process and we go in looking for the best outcome for students. We will look it across all the different measures and all the different costs across the line. That is what I said. I think that is reasonable and clear. It is still my absolute position. We did not need the alarm, panic, fear and doubt that, I accept, has been planted in students' minds unfairly. I answered a straight question with a straight answer. I said I was going to go into the budget process, as happened the previous three summers. Students have been under a disservice by the reaction that ensued, not by anyone here but in the wider system.
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The Deputy is likely aware that the rate of pay of an apprentice is a contractual matter between the employer and the apprentice, depending on the nature of the apprenticeship. If it is a craft or consortia-led apprenticeship, it may come under a sectoral employment order, but it is sometimes governed by contract. Breaches of the contract, if any, come under the remit of the Payment of Wages Act 1991, which is a matter for my colleague, Deputy Peter Burke, as the Minister for Enterprise, Tourism and Employment. One of the key strengths and mechanisms of the apprenticeship system overall is the ETB training adviser. Each apprentice is assigned a training adviser, who serves as a vital link between SOLAS, the education provider, the apprentice and the employer. That adviser supports the apprentice through on-the-job and off-the-job training modules. One of the functions of the training adviser is to support apprentices in understanding and exercising their rights, both under the SOLAS apprenticeship code of practice for employers and apprentices and, more broadly, under employment legislation. If an employer fails to pay the agreed rate, or there is any other breach of the requirements, the training adviser can raise that issue directly with the employer. The adviser can intervene on the ground and remind employers of their obligations, including legal ones, such as the requirement to have a written contract in place with the apprentice. Every apprentice who is entitled to a contract should have a contract. That is part of the employment relationship. In cases, if they arise, where an employer fails to provide suitable work, despite interventions from the training adviser or SOLAS, SOLAS can institute sanctions progressively. Where necessary, SOLAS can intervene to prohibit an employer from registering apprentices again for an indefinite period. In 2016, the Government introduced a new consortia-led model of apprenticeship, which the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, and I are rolling out further. Under this model, every new apprenticeship programme includes a worker representative on the steering group. Again, that representative advocates for apprentices’ interests, including matters relating to pay and on-the-job training. I am considering models to roll out that governance and strengthen it further.
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I am meeting representatives of SOLAS this week and I will raise it with them because it is not good enough if that is happening on the ground. I will make sure I engage with them on that matter. To some extent, all of us in any job end up taking on additional tasks or roles that may be slightly outside what we might be tasked to do. However, it should not be at scale, should not be routine and should not be repeated. Employers have no automatic entitlement to take on apprentices. Employers must fulfil their part of the bargain. An apprenticeship is a two-way street; it is not a one-way system at all. The employer gets the benefit of the employee, the apprentice, coming in applying their craft and their skills and bringing their energy and enterprise to the equation. The apprentice gets the benefit of the employer training them and providing other experienced employees in that workplace to assist and mentor. There is also a cost to the employer in doing that in taking other employees out of production to assist the apprentice coming through. It is a good system and has worked well for some time and one we want to expand and enhance. It requires adherence from both sides to their obligations.
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I will recap on some of the measures that are available if there is any breach. There is a code of practice for employers and apprentices and sanctions are available. SOLAS imposes those sanctions should they arise. Section 11 of the code of practice sets out such measures as a written warning, a final written warning, suspension from being able to take on apprenticeships for six months, and indefinite suspension. It is a very legitimate concern. However, the recent survey confirms that overall it is largely a very positive experience. Apprentices get an opportunity to gain experience and work with people who have been in the job longer and can bring their own life experience to that. That mentoring and training is very valuable. They are getting paid; they earn as they learn, which is something unique about it. I have met apprentices throughout the country, as has the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin. Largely they find it an enjoyable, productive and worthwhile process. I absolutely agree that there should be sanctions for those who misbehave, but let us not lose sight of the bigger picture that many very successful relationships are going on there as well.
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Central to the Deputy's question is the provision of information in whatever form. The question mentioned an information hub. It goes back to a deeper question about how we guide young people - some not so young - but primarily school-leavers into the right choices in their career paths. We need to recognise that the day of a job for life is gone. We see the advent of digital and artificial intelligence, AI, with skills changing all the time. We realise that the job market and the skills needs of today are not those of yesterday and indeed not those of tomorrow. Last Thursday I launched the national skills report with Dr. Kevin Marshall. On behalf of the Government, he is putting in place a skills report which looks at the future skills needs of the labour force. Following an OECD report he is working with his team to put in place a national skills observatory to look at the skills needed in different areas so that we can manage the pipeline and ensure those needs are being met. There are a number of different routes through the system and there are challenges navigating that when people are trying to make those decisions at the early stages. There are centralised websites such as qualifax.ie which has outlines course and qualifications details. CAO.ie is probably one of the better known ones. We also have susi.ie for student grants and apprenticeship.ie for people taking the apprenticeship route. There is a lot of good information but it is scattered across different websites and can be confusing and time-consuming to navigate. It is especially challenging for those in lower socioeconomic spectrums who may not have that social capital behind them in terms of a parent or sibling who may have navigated the system before them and may find it even more challenging than others. The programme for Government contains a commitment to create a new website with comprehensive information on third level pathways, supporting students across the island. That is an objective I am working towards and I have discussed with the northern stakeholders as part of my tour as a new Minister. We already pulling together the CAO and apprenticeship courses so that there is single information point. On an all-island basis, we are working on synchronising the UCAS and the CAO sites. I discussed that with the Minister, Dr. Archibald, at the North-South Ministerial Council recently. A lot of work is being done in that area. I will come back with more in my supplementary reply.
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The Deputy is absolutely right. As I said in my initial remarks, there is a programme for Government commitment to bring together the different portals into a shared information hub. That is very much a work in progress. I have canvassed the different agencies on that as I have been meeting them in my short time to date. We have tried to come up with an integrated tertiary system, covering further education, higher education, apprenticeships and all the different routes that people can pursue for further education and training beyond their leaving cert. Some of this goes into pre-leaving cert. My colleague, the Minister for education, Deputy McEntee, is doing work on her side of the system on how we get supports out through career guidance counsellors. It is one of the ones where it meets in the middle. We are also doing some work on behavioural science. My Department is working with the ESRI to better understand the choices that students, apprentices and young learners make and why they make them. They may not be for intuitive reasons. They may not be for the reasons that we might project our own world views on. There may be other interesting findings from that. All of that together will inform us as to what behaviours students exhibit, why do that, why they make certain choices and how we can help them to navigate, including by means of a comprehensive and unified portal.
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I studied accounting for my leaving cert and then studied mathematics as an undergraduate. Perhaps my focus on numbers has been unfortunate in recent days. Perhaps there is a bigger picture than the pure mathematical realities, something I am learning. Again I agree with the Deputy. The Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, and I recently launched a subset of the overall system but a really strong exemplar of what can work well - the modern methods of construction pathway. Recently in Mount Lucas, along with the Minister, Deputy Burke, and the Minister, Deputy Browne, the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, and I launched a modern methods of construction skills portal and pathway. Obviously, as a country, we have a significant housing challenge and modern methods of construction are one way we can get a productivity dividend. We can build more houses with fewer materials, fewer costs and less labour if we correctly deploy the technologies and modern methods involved. We need to get adoption and that skills roll-out into industry. We have put a portal in place that allows students, developers, craftworkers and people from all across the industry to find their way through and come out the far side. It is worth looking at the MMC portal. If we can do that at scale across the rest of the sector, we will have done some useful work.
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