Housing Provision
1. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage for an update on the delayed Department approvals for social and affordable housing. [24903/25]
Will the Minister update the House on the ongoing delay in approvals of social and affordable housing projects for local authorities and approved housing bodies? In particular, how many of the 3,000 units that got Cabinet funding approval on 18 February still have not been formally approved and notified to the local authorities and approved housing bodies? How many projects beyond the 3,000 are also delayed and awaiting approval in his Department?
I thank the Deputy for his question on departmental approvals for social and affordable housing. The Government is committed to working with all stakeholders to deliver social, affordable and cost-rental homes at scale and to continue accelerating housing supply across all tenures. This is demonstrated by the record level of investment for the delivery of housing in 2025, with overall capital funding now available of almost €6.8 billion.
With regard to approvals, the Department continues to both receive and issue approvals and, indeed, make payments to AHBs and local authorities. Only this week, a number of applications for new-build social housing projects were approved and approval letters issued. Since the beginning of the year, the Department has released funding of over €1.1 billion for the social and affordable housing build programmes to local authorities and approved housing bodies, and payments continue to be issued.
It is important to note that developers and AHBs can begin their conversations with local authorities regarding projects significantly ahead of lodging a formal application to my Department. There will always be projects on hand with my Department, either under assessment or the subject of further engagement with local authorities or AHBs. This is perfectly normal.
The ongoing NDP review will determine capital budgets for the period 2026 to 2030. The outcome of this review will determine the available capital funding for social and affordable housing out to 2030, and this has been communicated to local authorities and approved housing bodies.
The suggestion that what has been happening with the approvals for social and affordable housing at the end of last year and early this year is perfectly normal is simply not true. Either the Minister knows that and is refusing to address the question or he simply does not know what is going on in his Department. There is considerable frustration among local authorities, approved housing bodies and builders over the significant delay. Three thousand units were approved by the Cabinet in February but many of the related projects have not actually secured formal approval and notification has not been issued to the local authorities and approved housing bodies. I am talking to AHBs, large and small, and to builders. One builder in Dublin, who was halfway through building 50-plus apartments, had to close the site down because of an outstanding AHB CALF approval, the application having been last year. Can the Minister be honest with us and tell us how many of the 3,000 units have been subject to formal notification of approval? Are there more beyond those? We were hearing earlier this year that there could be as many as 5,000 units delayed. One assumes this is because of difficulties and disagreements between officials in the Minister’s Department and those in the Department of Finance and the Department of public expenditure and reform.
I am happy to engage with the Deputy if he wants to give me the information on any specific case he suggests has been delayed. There may be some confusion among some bodies who put in queries or applications, or whatever the case may be, in that they believe that because they have not got approval it somehow means a delay. The funding we have is being approved. We have been providing funding for the necessary projects, be they cost-rental, CALF or local authority projects. We do encourage applications. We always have applications on hand that are going through the process to determine whether they can be approved, but that is different from saying there is a bunch of applications that have been approved but simply have not got the funding that is necessary.
I am beginning to worry that the Minister does not understand what is actually happening in his Department. I urge him to talk to local authority directors of housing and the Irish Council for Social Housing. I will forward him the details on the individual schemes by way of email after this meeting. Typically, a decision on an application from an AHB – for example, for the capital advance leasing facility – will be made in six to eight weeks. There was a large number of applications at the start of this year that were three or four months awaiting a decision. The Minister brought a memorandum to the Cabinet that promised to unblock the 3,000 units, but I am hearing that about half of the approvals to approved housing bodies related to the AHB portion of the 3,000 units have yet to be subject to due diligence in the Department and notification to the AHBs. I am hearing of AHBs with CALF, CREL and CAS applications that have been in the system for many months, which is undermining their ability to start going through the pipeline and their ability in respect of builders and developers of their turnkeys. The position is similar with local authorities. In other counties, there are schemes or homes that are finished but empty because CALF, CREL or SHIP funding has not been approved. The homes cannot be acquired and people cannot move in.
I urge the Minister to consider this again because what he is saying is simply not reflective of what I am hearing from local authorities, AHBs and builders.
Again, I thank the Deputy. I assure him I am over the detail in my Department. I think that some of the organisations presume that because they have an application in, they are entitled to funding or are automatically going to get funding. We are already providing record capital funding for this year, of almost €6.8 billion. There will be more spent. We encourage applications but the fact that an application has been submitted and has not been funded does not mean there is a delay because there is not an automatic entitlement to have a project funded. I will continue to look over any applications that are being submitted. We will continue to fund additional projects during this year but we are certainly not delaying the approval of projects.
2. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he is concerned that housing delivery is at risk because of an inability of new houses to be connected to the electricity grid; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24653/25]
Is big tech's insatiable demand for energy to power data centres being put before the need to address the housing crisis? The recent CRU report suggests housing delivery is at risk because of the inability to connect new houses to the electricity grid as a result of the insatiable demand of data centres.
I thank Deputy Murphy for raising this important question on whether housing delivery is at risk because of challenges regarding the electricity grid. I am committed to building more homes in Ireland and to ensuring the housing needs of our society and economy are met. The Government’s revised housing targets, aiming for over 300,000 new homes by 2030, set a pathway to deliver on this objective.
While scaling up capacity to deliver 300,000 new homes by 2030 will be an enormous challenge, this can be facilitated, inter alia, through appropriate Government support to increase the critical infrastructural capacity needed to enable housing delivery in the coming years. The Government is investing record levels of capital funding in critical infrastructure and will continue to do so under the national development plan for the period 2025 to 2035, to be finalised by July of this year.
Developers are guaranteed a connection by ESB Networks. It is worth noting that, over the past four years, ESB Networks has connected over 147,000 homes and businesses to the distribution network. For future connections, ESB Networks is advising developers to give as much notice of their requirements as possible.
In response to increased demand, the operators have prepared business plans that propose significantly increased investment in the electricity grid for the period 2026 to 2030 for consideration by the Commission for the Regulation of Utilities under its sixth price review. I look forward to the conclusion of the review, which will provide a clear framework for investment in the electricity grid for the next five-year period.
In addition, the new housing activation office in my Department will engage with and align key stakeholders, including those responsible for the electricity grid, to ensure barriers to housing development are addressed in a co-ordinated way.
Let me quote from the recent CRU paper on policy on the connection of data centres:
ESB Networks has highlighted risks that, in the absence of an adequate policy response, the potential level of data centre demand could significantly impact its ability to accommodate demand connections required to support Government policy targets such as 550,000 new homes by 2040 …
It goes on to give the example that, in west Dublin, the new Castlebaggot station was initially designed to support housing growth, relieve pressure and support industrial growth, as well as future demand. It then states:
However, due to the first come first served connection approach this new capacity at Castlebaggot was almost entirely used by data centres applications, leaving limited capability to support other demand needs in the area.
Therefore, more electricity capacity, or another power station, was added to the grid to assist with housing but it was gobbled up by data centres. What the CRU states is that "it does not have sufficient statutory powers to prioritise certain government policy objectives over others under current legislation". It is asking the Minister to act to state housing should take priority over big tech. Is he going to?
We are all aware that the high population growth and strong economic growth led to increased demand in terms of housing and also for our economy. Particularly with regard to delivering housing and the supporting infrastructure, there has been a growth in energy demand and the energy intensity required for modern manufacturing and large-scale servers. Delivering electricity infrastructure is absolutely key for this Government to ensure houses are delivered and also for our wider economy.
In response to increased demand, ESB Networks and EirGrid have prepared business plans that propose significantly increased investment in the electricity grid for the period 2026 to 2030. Under the accelerating renewable electricity task force, the Department established in 2024 the future grid working group. This working group is tasked with accelerating the delivery of our electricity grid. This year will see the Irish regulator approve the investment in the Irish electricity grid for the period 2026 to 2030.
The Deputy has raised concerns. They exist and we all acknowledge that there are challenges, but the Department, regulator and Government will be responding to them in the coming years.
What is the response of the Department and Government? Is it to put a pause, at least, on data centres? Is the Government’s response to state, at least, that housing takes priority? The CRU is saying to the Minister very clearly that we are adding electricity capacity and that, because of the first-come, first-served nature of the system, it is being gobbled up by data centres. Let us get real about where the extra demand for electricity is coming from. It is predominantly from the big tech giants.
They are at over 20% of our electricity usage now and by 2030 they will be very close to 30%. This Government signals an even brighter green light to the data centres to keep coming. It says it wants more in terms of AI and so on. However, they are saying to the Government that unless it indicates that housing takes priority, those data centres will gobble up the electricity and will be an obstacle to delivering the housing we need to address the housing crisis. Will the Minister therefore, at the very least, say that housing takes priority over these data centres in terms of electricity?
I again thank the Deputy for his question. Housing is the number one priority for this Government, and that runs across all the different Departments. We have our Cabinet subcommittees where we work with the various Departments. In response to the increased demand as a result of a significant increase in population and economic demand being put on our grid, we have a plan in place, that plan is being worked out and we will deliver the electricity we need to provide the homes we will deliver and to help our economy continue to grow, which in turn gives us the funds, the taxes, that we need to help build those homes.
I now call on Deputy Ó Broin. I will take Deputy Gould's question after Question No. 4.
Local Authorities
4. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he will reverse the decision to cut funding for social housing acquisitions, including housing first and the tenant in situ schemes. [24905/25]
I will let Thomas catch his breath. He has run across the city, fair play to him. I am surprised the Corkman did not get lost.
In light of the very real concern among local authorities and councillors, TDs and Senators, from both Government and Opposition benches, about the impact of the Government's cuts to social housing acquisition funding, including tenant in situ and housing first, will the Minister give a commitment to revisit that decision and reverse the cut to ensure that local authorities have the funds to purchase homes to prevent people from becoming homeless and to allow people to get out of emergency accommodation more speedily?
I thank Deputy Ó Broin for raising this important question about the tenant in situ scheme and housing first.
Tenant in situ acquisitions have been an important measure in the prevention of homelessness since their introduction in 2023. The Government has therefore agreed to continue such acquisitions in 2025 and has increased the funding available for second-hand social acquisitions from the €60 million allocated under Housing for All to €325 million through the allocation of an additional €265 million a couple of months ago. In budget 2025, €60 million was allocated. The Minister, Deputy Chambers, significantly increased this funding only a couple of months ago by an additional €265 million. To date, local authorities have drawn down only 20%, or €64.13 million, of the €325 million which has been allocated for acquisitions in 2025. No local authority has drawn down all its funding or even come close to it.
My Department engaged with local authorities on the operational details for the second-hand acquisitions programme, and a circular setting out the arrangements issued to them on 31 March 2025, with individual allocations for the local authorities being notified to them on 1 April 2025.
Under revised arrangements for second-hand acquisitions in 2025, local authorities received a capital funding allocation for the acquisition of homes for the priority categories of tenant in situ properties that allow persons or families to exit homelessness; one-bedroom properties to deliver on housing first targets; specific housing required for people with a disability or the elderly; and vacant properties under the buy and renew scheme.
The provision of a capital funding allocation will help promote best practice in obtaining value for money and provide local authorities with the flexibility to respond to needs and priorities locally within the categories of need being prioritised.
Tenant in situ acquisitions continue to be supported and prioritised where other solutions cannot be found for the affected tenants. It is a matter for local authorities to assess the circumstances of each case and decide the appropriate action. The arrangements for 2025 will ensure a more targeted and focused acquisitions programme.
My Department continues to engage with local authorities on any challenges which emerge in order to ensure that tenant in situ acquisitions can continue in 2025 where no other solutions exist for the affected households.
With the greatest of respect to the Minister, what utter rubbish. When he notified local authorities of their allocations at the end of March, there was a sharp intake of breath, particularly in the large urban local authorities that have significant levels of homelessness. Not only was the capital allocation a substantial cut on what had been spent on acquisitions last year, but when the local authorities sift through the paused and delayed applications from 2024, closed or not closed, they are telling their elected members they have no money left. In Cork city, for example, communication to TDs and councillors has said that when they deal with the overhang for 2024, there is not a cent left for new acquisitions. Dublin city is the same. Fingal is in the same situation, as well as a number of other local authorities. They are telling the Minister and his fellow party members and our party members that they will not have funding for new acquisitions for 2025. He needs to listen to them, engage and reopen the funding. The consequence will be that in Cork city, Dublin city and elsewhere, more people will become homeless and more people will spend more time in emergency accommodation. That is what front-line local authority homeless service managers are telling us and the Government's backbenchers, councillors and Senators. The Minister needs to listen to them and reopen these funding arrangements to ensure that homelessness does not continue to increase.
I thank the Deputy for his question. We have provided significant money for second-hand acquisitions for this year. The second-hand acquisition programme was always introduced as a temporary, short-term measure to deal with the ending of the eviction ban. Sinn Féin's own housing policy proposes a very sharp reduction in tenant in situ acquisitions to 800, far below what we have to address this situation. The Deputy needs to be honest and look at Sinn Féin's own housing policy. He wants to reduce the number of acquisitions to 800 over the coming years. Even Sinn Féin's proposal for this year would not deal with the hangover.
Of course it would.
Then there is, as Sinn Féin proposes, the full-year reset the Deputy seems to be looking for for this year. The reality is that one engages in acquisitions, there is a significant overhang from last year, that will be worked out through this year, additional funding will be provided for next year and we will keep the matter under review.
It is deeply disappointing that not only did the Minister fail to address the question but he also misrepresented Sinn Féin's policy. Let me set the record straight. In our alternative housing plan, we have made provision for 6,500 acquisitions over five years, 2,000 this year, reducing by 200 each year until 2029. That is because we make the assumption that demand for the scheme over five years will reduce. The Minister is providing no extra funding for acquisitions in the largest local authorities in this year. What he has allocated will deal just with last year's applications, and some of those applications will not now be processed because the Minister has changed the rules for tenant in situ and people who otherwise would have been prevented from becoming homeless will lose access to the scheme.
My question is very simple. When Cork City Council says it has no money now for acquisitions applied for in 2025, will the Minister meet with the council, the councillors and the executive and discuss expanding the budget? When Dublin City Council finally works through its overhang from last year and confirms, just like Cork city has done, that there will be no money for new housing first acquisitions or tenant in situ acquisitions this year, will the Minister meet the councillors and the management and reopen the funding? If he does not, more people will become homeless. Misrepresenting Sinn Féin's policy is not a smart move when families' well-being is at risk because the Minister cut funding and they will become homeless as a consequence.
I have not misrepresented Sinn Féin's policy. Its policy is very clear. The policy I read referred to 1,800 houses reduced by 200 each year, down to 800, so Sinn Féin's policy is to significantly slash second-hand acquisitions. It is in black and white in its own policy.
Two thousand acquisitions this year, 1,800 next year-----
With respect, Deputy, I did not interrupt you. This is in Sinn Féin's own policy. We have looked at the scheme-----
Well, you should read it again because you are misrepresenting it, Minister - deliberately.
You want to slash tenant in situ acquisitions down to 800. That is Sinn Féin's policy. You are now saying it is down to 1,000.
What about the people of Cork?
Either way, it is a significant reduction.
People will be homeless-----
The Minister, without interruption.
Deputy, do not try to-----
There is no point in shouting down the Minister.
He is the Minister for housing; he will not do a jot.
Stop shouting, Deputy.
I have 33 families in Cork.
Deputy, stop shouting.
Allow the Minister to answer, Deputy.
Thirty-three families will be homeless in the next few weeks and you will not do anything about it.
You will not shout people down.
Deputy, allow the Minister to answer.
Do not try to shout me down, all right, Deputy?
Tell that to the families becoming homeless.
Show a little respect.
They want me up here shouting because you will not do your job.
I know you do not like my answer, but shouting me down will not stop me giving it, okay, Deputy? The reality is that Sinn Féin's housing policy proposes to significantly reduce second-hand acquisitions. I suggest Deputy Gould read it.
As to what we have done, in some local authorities, unfortunately, significant amounts of money have been used for refurbishment, €5 million in the case of one local authority. That was never the purpose of this scheme. These are houses that are already being rented out; they should not need huge amounts of money on refurbishment. I have met with the Cork City Council executive, I have been down in Cork and we have continued to engage with all the local authorities to address the situation. It is perfectly normal that local authorities continue to engage with various people who they felt needed tenant in situ usage in advance of the allocation for this year. Those acquisitions will be purchased this year for those people. Cork has significant money, as do all the local authorities. However, what Sinn Féin is doing again here - and it is fundamentally dishonest and is a trick the party has pulled before - is comparing the result at the end of one match to where we are halfway through another match.
We are simply repeating what council officials are telling us. Is the Minister saying Cork County Council officials are lying?
The Deputy is comparing outturn from previous years to the funding we provided in May this year. The year is not over.
They say the council no money for new acquisitions this year. Is the Minister saying that is not true?
Stop comparing the result at the end of one match to the score halfway through another.
That is a fundamentally dishonest way of presenting it-----
Members----
-----and misrepresents council officials as well as us.
Deputy Ó Broin.
It is bad form but no surprise, given that the Minister is trying to blame councils.
I am not blaming the councils.
We are taking time off the next Members coming along. We are now to two or three minutes over. If someone asks a question, let us get the answer without shouting people down. I call Deputy Gould.
3. Deputy Thomas Gould asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the timeline of the completion of the stock audit across all local authorities. [24904/25]
Will the Minister of State provide the timeline for the completion of the stock survey across all local authorities?
I thank Deputy Gould for raising this important matter. There is no question that utilising existing stock at a time of such need is just as important as developing new social housing stock. The programme for Government commits to the introduction of a new voids programme and also to supporting the ongoing work to transition to a strategic and informed maintenance approach to the management and maintenance of our local authority housing stock based on stock condition surveys. The new programme will build on the successes of the voids programme over the past ten years, which has seen an investment of more than €360 million of Exchequer funding, which has supported the refurbishment and re-letting of some 25,672 dwellings. It will also have a renewed focus on improving re-let times and local authority performance and supporting the transition to that planned maintenance approach.
Regarding the stock condition surveys of local authority homes, work surveys have already begun in many local authorities. These surveys are crucial for an informed planned maintenance approach and are supported by specialist ICT infrastructure that has been procured and rolled out across the majority of local authorities, with the remainder in progress. It will take time to work through the full programme of planned condition surveys but it is the appropriate approach to move to more planned maintenance on a cyclical basis while also working with local authorities to ensure there is a quicker re-let time in the provision of existing housing stock. It should not be the case that significant numbers come into the voids programme at a time when, over the past number of years, we have spent a considerable amount of money on our voids programme.
On 11 November 2021, the former Minister informed me in a parliamentary question answer that the stock audit would take place across all local authorities and would take four to five years. As the Minister of State pointed out, that would have allowed for a planned maintenance programme for 2022 and 2023 - we are at least two, if not three, years behind schedule - and the voids programme to end. The Minister of State just commented on the voids programme. A maximum of only €11,000 can be claimed per unit under it. Local authorities are leaving the voids, or boarded-up houses, as they should be called, empty for years, destroying communities, causing dirt and antisocial behaviour, and affecting the environment people are living in all because the Government will not give the money. I was in Kevin Street flats and Pearse Street flats yesterday. It is a disgrace that the Government is not giving the money. There 79 apartments between the two blocks that are empty right now. Across the whole State, there are more than 4,000 board-up houses and the Government has only allocated enough to do less than half - 45% - yet the Minister of State is talking about planned maintenance.
The Deputy's question asked about planned maintenance, so that is the answer I gave. We want to move towards more of a planned maintenance approach, which is appropriate. We do not want to see voids left for significant periods. Huge amounts of money have been spent in the voids programme but we want to move to a planned maintenance approach so that we can re-let council properties and reuse our existing stock to the fullest. As per the latest NOAC report from 2023, the performance of some local authorities is better than others in re-letting properties. It goes from 13.27 weeks in Laois to 65 weeks in Kerry. Something is clearly happening in Laois that is not happening in Kerry. It is not to pick on those two local authorities, but they are the outliers. There are many in between. We have to move to a planned maintenance approach and away from the voids approach. At the same time, we are committed to giving considerable money to the voids programme because we see the value in it.
I thank the Minister of State. He said the majority of local authorities were carrying these surveys out. How many local authorities have carried them out? How much of the stock has been surveyed? Are there available figures that the Minister of State can provide me? Cork City Council has 11,000 properties. As far as I know, no stock survey has been done and the Government want to get rid of the voids programme.
I did not say that.
In 2021, the then Minister said it and that the maintenance scheme would be put in place in 2022 and 2023. The Government said that. Is the Minister of State now disagreeing with what the previous Minister said?
We are looking for facts and figures. When will the surveys be done? I have some figures, so I will give the Minister of State an idea of the allocations. The Government is allocating €67.23 per house for local authorities to do a stock maintenance and planning survey.
Sorry, Deputy----
I will provide one more figure. In the area of maintenance, the cost is reckoned to be €1,200, but the Government is giving €63.
I would appreciate if the Deputy did not misrepresent me on the floor of the Dáil. What I actually said was that we wanted to move to a more planned maintenance approach. It is not that we are eliminating the voids programme. We have spent a considerable amount of money on it over the past number of years and will continue to do so, but we want a more planned maintenance approach and to move to a more cyclical maintenance in local authorities.
The Government has to fund it, though.
I did not interrupt Deputy Gould. Is he going to continue shouting people down? If the Deputy asks a question, I would appreciate it if he gave me the respect of being able to answer it. From 2022, to the end of 2024, local authorities carried out approximately 5,793 stock condition surveys. In 2025, more than €10 million has been provided to local authorities for planned maintenance. We will continue to move to that approach and continue to support local authorities through the voids programme.
Housing Provision
5. Deputy Séamus McGrath asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage for his expectations for the delivery of affordable housing this year; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24902/25]
Will the Minister outline his expectations for the delivery of affordable housing, particularly affordable purchase housing, for the coming year?
I thank Deputy McGrath for raising the important issue around expectations for the delivery of affordable housing this year. I know it is a matter that is important to the Deputy.
The Government is fully committed to delivering affordable housing at scale and continuing to accelerate housing supply across all tenures. In 2024, more than 7,000 affordable housing options were delivered nationwide by a range of delivery partners, exceeding the target of 6,400 for the year. Overall, nearly 13,000 affordable housing solutions have been delivered since the launch of Housing for All, which is huge progress from a standing start in 2021. Under Housing for All, the affordable housing delivery target for 2025 is 6,400 and a strong pipeline is already in place across our delivery partners, including local authorities, approved housing bodies, the Land Development Agency and the first home scheme. Both Cork City Council and Cork County Council continue to work proactively with all delivery partners, with Cork City Council having a programme in place to deliver 465 affordable purchase homes with affordable housing fund support by 2026, of which 260 homes have already been delivered. Building on this progress, my Department will continue to engage with all delivery partners to further the development of the affordable housing delivery pipeline for 2025 and beyond and to ensure that affordable housing programme responds effectively to the affordable housing needs identified at a local level.
Under the programme for Government, the Government committed to introduce a new starter home programme across the public, private and AHB sectors which promotes home ownership and secures long-term rental tenures for young people and fresh start applicants. My Department is currently progressing this commitment and it will form part of the next housing plan.
I thank the Minister and I know he very much values affordable housing. I thank him for the figures he provided indicating that 6,400 units will be provided this year, which is very welcome. Prior to the election I strongly committed to individuals and couples that I would be a strong voice in relation to affordable housing. We all know the cohort of people who are above the social housing income limits but not in a position to acquire a house in their own right. We need to support those individuals and couples but unfortunately, at present, there is a gap in the supports that are available. Unfortunately, in general, affordable housing does not get the recognition or priority it deserves. In many local authorities and approved housing bodies, it seems to be the last resort in terms of proposals that come before them and that needs to change. I ask the Minister and his Department to ensure that affordable housing gets the proper recognition and priority it deserves. I appreciate that there are significant supports for buyers, such as the first home scheme and the help to buy scheme, and that there is a lot of delivery taking place in the cost-rental area through the Land Development Agency but we need to do more in relation to affordable housing.
I thank the Deputy for raising the important issue of affordable housing. I also thank him for his regular engagement with me on the issue of how we can develop further affordable housing. In terms of the pipeline of delivery in Cork city, since the launch of Housing for All until the end of quarter 4 in 2024, 747 affordable housing solutions have been delivered via a range of delivery partners. To date approval has been given for ten projects in Cork city under the affordable housing fund, which will deliver 465 affordable purchase homes. In addition, ten approved housing body projects have been approved to date under the cost-rental equity loan scheme, with the potential to deliver 978 homes by 2027. Through the LDA's market engagement initiative, Project Tosaigh, 302 homes are expected to be delivered in 2025 at Horgan's Quay and a further 337 are expected to be delivered at Marina Depot in 2027, consisting of a mix of cost and social housing. I want to see more affordable homes being delivered in Cork city and the wider Cork area.
I acknowledge the progress that has been made in Cork, both by Cork City Council and Cork County Council in the delivery of affordable purchase houses in particular. That is very welcome and I note the strong ambition in the programme for Government under the starter homes theme, which is important. Again, I reiterate that when one looks at the delivery of housing, the quantum of social housing is critically important and we all want that to increase but have to look at the disparity between social and affordable. We need to ensure that we bridge that gap and continue to increase our delivery of affordable housing as well as social housing and, of course, cost rental housing. I know that the Minister is personally committed to this and would ask him to give it every priority possible in the coming months.
I thank Deputy McGrath for his question and I fully agree with him that in addressing our housing needs in this country, we need to deliver private houses for those who can afford them and affordable houses for those who need help to bridge the gap to own their own homes. We also need to provide social houses. We must ensure that options are there for each person in this country so that their housing needs are met and they have the homes they need, whether social, affordable, or private. We must work to ensure that people can live in the homes and communities they want to live in and can feel safe and secure growing up in their local communities. We will continue to engage with the Deputy to ensure that the afford piece is a central part of everything we do.
An Garda Síochána
117. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Minister for Justice if the selection competition for identifying and recommending to the Government a person for appointment as Garda Commissioner has commenced; if he expects that a new Garda Commissioner will be in place when the extension of the current Commissioner's contract ends on 1 September 2025; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24687/25]
The selection competition for identifying and recommending to the Government a person for appointment as Garda Commissioner has been delayed as a result of the Government's failure to enact the Policing, Security and Community Safety Act. This is a crucially important position in our society and particularly in our policing services. Will the Minister give an assurance to the Dáil that a new Garda Commissioner will be in place by 1 September of this year when the current Commissioner's contract ends?
I thank the Deputy for his very important question but I think he will agree with me it fades into insignificance when we consider the terrible events of last weekend and how they affected An Garda Síochána. Like the Deputy no doubt, I want to start these questions by extending my condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Garda Kevin Flatley who gave his life in the line of duty.
On that point and in answer to the Deputy's question, it is fair to say that a Commissioner, no matter who he or she is, can only be as good as the rank and file gardaí who serve under them. Nonetheless the Deputy's question is a valid and an important one. Section 26 of the new Act, that sets out the procedure for the appointment of a Garda Commissioner.
As the Deputy has indicated, the Commissioner, Mr. Harris, is retiring on 1 September. I have already started the process for the appointment of the new Garda Commissioner. I consulted with the relevant statutory bodies in advance of the post being advertised last Friday. As the Deputy will be aware, the closing date for applications is 29 May. After that, there will be interviews. I believe I will be in a position in mid-July to go to the Government with a proposal on the name of a person who will be appointed by the Government as Garda Commissioner. If that is achieved in July, as I expect it to be achieved, it will mean that the new Commissioner will commence his or her post from 1 September.
To answer the Deputy's question directly, we will be in a position to have a new Commissioner starting as leader of the force on 1 September next. It is an extremely important position. I know we are going to have many excellent candidates from within and without the force putting forward their names for the competition.
I thank the Minister. I join with him in expressing our condolences to the family, friends and Garda colleagues of Garda Kevin Flatley. The outpouring of grief we have seen from his local community points to the fact that Garda Flatley represented all that is good about An Garda Síochána and its membership.
Regarding the new Garda Commissioner, I agree with the Minister that the Commissioner is only as strong as his or her members. Clearly, there has been somewhat of a breakdown in trust - that is putting it as diplomatically as I can - between many Garda members and higher echelons of management. That is why the appointment of a new Commissioner must mark a new beginning and a new phase in the operational issues of An Garda Síochána that we know are there and must be addressed.
Therefore, is the Minister satisfied that there is now a prospect of somebody with no policing experience whatsoever taking over the role of Garda Commissioner? Many people are quite surprised that that is even an option. I would like the Minister to comment on that.
No, a person with no policing experience will not be appointed, or recommended by me rather, for the position of Garda Commissioner. It is also important to emphasise that we have a lot of excellent candidates within An Garda Síochána who should be putting their names forward for the position of Garda Commissioner. As it such a prestigious job at such a well-resourced and high-reputation entity within the world, I have no doubt that people from outside this country will be putting their names forward.
I want to see an active and strong competition. It is a really important role. We need an inspirational leader and somebody who recognises the important role that An Garda Síochána plays within our society. I know there were issues of some concern in respect of the standard fund threshold to persons who are within An Garda Síochána, but when you look at the package that is available, I am fairly satisfied and have a strong expectation that the full recommendations of Dr. Donal de Buitléir will be implemented by Government in due course.
That is important, and it is regrettable that we have a situation where senior gardaí are saying - if not on the record, then letting it be known - that the position is not tenable for them. Those issues must be addressed.
What the public at large wants to see is an improvement in Garda visibility in their communities. We need a clear plan for putting more gardaí, particularly community gardaí, on our streets in our communities. The Minister will know that, in March, the current Commissioner, Mr. Drew Harris, said it was simply not possible to achieve the Government's goal of having 1,000 new members attested in 2025. He said the maximum would be 800. I do not know if the Minister can give us an estimated total for this year yet, but what we do know is that Garda numbers have declined in relative terms over the past number of years, and communities have paid a price for that in terms of Garda visibility. Will the Minister ensure that when the new Garda Commissioner is in place, he or she will be provided with the resources and policy changes necessary to ensure we have the number of gardaí that are required so that the Commissioner's term can be a success?
I agree with the Deputy's position, and that of Sinn Féin, that the standard fund threshold part of the tax system needs to be changed. It is my strong expectation that that will happen.
In respect of the numbers within An Garda Síochána, as the Deputy will know from the programme for Government, we have given a commitment that we will seek to get the numbers in An Garda Síochána up by 5,000 over the course of the Government term. I have said it before; it is a challenging issue to try to get Garda numbers up but all I can do - and I would ask the Deputy and other Members of the House to do it as well - is to emphasise that, notwithstanding the danger associated with being a member of An Garda Síochána, which we tragically saw last weekend, it is a job that is worth doing. There are very many fine members of An Garda Síochána who you speak to, and they will tell you they derive great satisfaction from their jobs.
We need to get the numbers up. More importantly, we need to get the numbers we have out on the streets. We are beginning to see that. We are in a great position in Ireland where people want to see members of An Garda Síochána on the streets in their communities, and that is what I am committed to doing.
International Protection
118. Deputy Matt Carthy asked the Minister for Justice the total amount that was spent on IPAS accommodation in 2024; the projected spend on IPAS accommodation in 2025; the plans he has to initiate a value for money review into contracts for the provision of IPAS accommodation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24688/25]
The Minister of State knows there has been massive profiteering in the provision of accommodation for those seeking asylum. People have become millionaires overnight providing what is sometimes unsuitable accommodation in what I would call a deeply flawed system, while many communities have lost vital local amenities, including hotels. Will the Minister of State outline the total amount of public money that was spent on IPAS accommodation in 2024, what the projected spend is for this year, and what plans he has to initiate a value for money review into the contracts for the provision of IPAS accommodation?
I thank the Deputy. I wish to start by also expressing my sympathy and condolences to Garda Flatley's family, colleagues and the community. It is a very sad occasion in which we are taking these questions here today, and they put a lot of things in context.
The Government has brought significant focus to addressing a range of complex systemic pressures within our international protection system. Ireland has adopted and is now working to implement the EU pact on migration and asylum in mid-2026. As Minister of State, my goal is to ensure a robust and enforced immigration system. The system should provide efficient processing and ensure people who meet the criteria for international protection can be accepted and integrated into our society quickly. It will also ensure that anyone who does not meet the criteria is refused protection and leaves the State.
My overall strategic approach is intended to reduce the scale of the demand for accommodation. This is against a backdrop in Ireland and other EU member states where we have responded to a very sharp and sustained increase in the number of people applying for international protection from early 2022 to the end of 2024. To illustrate this, at the beginning of 2022, Ireland's international protection accommodation services sheltered approximately 7,000 people. By the end of 2024, this had expanded by almost 400% to accommodate 32,000 eligible people.
The total cost of IPAS accommodation in 2024 was just over €1 billion. This figure is still provisional pending publication of the 2024 appropriation accounts for the Department of Children, Disability and Equality, under which this service operated during that year.
The budget allocated for this service in 2025 is €1.2 billion. The costs include both State-owned and commercially provided emergency accommodation and cover accommodation, catering, utilities, transport and other essential costs.
In managing the complex range of accommodation contracts in 325 centres, there are processes in place to ensure value for money and enforce compliance. Officials in IPAS routinely inspect services and oversee the contracts, and engage with providers and regulatory bodies. Within IPAS, these changes will see the proportion of accommodation provided on State-owned sites increased with the objective of developing an accommodation system with a reduced reliance on commercial provision.
These changes, along with other steps I am taking to improve the operation of international protection, should curtail the need to constantly grow the capacity we have seen over recent years.
I have been raising the issue of profiteering within the IPAS system since I was an MEP almost a decade ago. I raised it as a member of the Committee of Public Accounts. The Minister of State said we spent €1 billion on IPAS accommodation last year. What he did not say was that most of that money was paid to private operations. He did not answer the question as to whether he agreed there was a need for a value for money audit and full scrutiny of those IPAS contracts.
There are serious questions. Do we know, for example, how many providers that are making millions of euro actually acquired the properties being used at a discount through NAMA? Do we know how many newly established companies that have no track record secured these types of contract? How do we have a situation where companies have just completely repurposed overnight? We have had a small café becoming one of the largest financial beneficiaries of IPAS contracts.
Do we know how many companies, benefiting to the tune of millions from what is a flawed system, are located or owned by corporations outside of the State? These are serious questions, and when talking about €1 billion of public money, the public has a right to answers. The Minister of State has not given clarification as to whether a review of the public expenditure accounts will be carried out. Will he do so?
It important to note that the IPAS has grown rapidly and by more than 400%. It is important to note there is extensive oversight of all aspects of accommodation, the commissioning process and all the processes that have been improved incrementally over the past three years. Regarding appraisal of providers, my Department carries out due diligence on accommodation being contracted, including checks on the providers via the Companies Registration Office to ensure compliance with CRO requirements, as well as checks on tax compliance and that providers have valid tax clearance certificates. All commercial offers are appraised by a dedicated team across a range of factors, including the site, its potential, the value for money to the State, that due diligence is done, and planning and regulatory measures. Consideration is also given to the location, locality and access to services in terms of health, wellbeing and security.
I have to dispute virtually every single thing the Minister of State has just said. I know this area has just moved into his Department. The State has paid out billions of euro with virtually no transparency. There have been increasing reports of companies with no track record at all being awarded contracts to the tunes of millions of euro. A recent report concerned a company that had been awarded a contract to provide 277 beds for IPAS applicants at Dundrum, County Tipperary. The company, which is named Utmasta Limited and was set up three months ago with one director who is based in Majorca, is set to be paid millions of euro of Irish taxpayers' money. Does that make sense to the Minister of State? Has that contract been reviewed to ascertain how this could come about? To give some reassurance, can the Minister of State point to any instance where an IPAS contract has been withdrawn or cancelled as a result of any of the checks and balances that he has outlined here today?
It is important to say that standard procedures have been developed and documented for all aspects of the process. There is full transparency from the Department in terms of providers receiving payments. Details of payments over €20,000 are published quarterly online on gov.ie.
Have any contracts been cancelled?
There is full detail and transparency within the process.
Have any been cancelled? Will the Minister of State look into the case I asked about?
Prison Service
119. Deputy Gary Gannon asked the Minister for Justice in light of the worsening crisis of prison overcrowding, where over 350 people are reportedly sleeping on floors and prison numbers are at a record high, the steps he is taking to implement meaningful decarceration policies, including non-custodial sentencing and investment in community supports. [24597/25]
I want to align myself with the condolences expressed across the Chamber to Garda Kevin Flatley's family, colleagues and the communities he served so diligently.
In light of the worsening crisis of prison overcrowding whereby more than 350 people are reported to be sleeping on floors in prison and prison numbers are at a record high, what steps has the Minister taken to implement meaningful decarceration policies, including non-custodial sentences and investing in community-based sanction and support?
I thank Deputy Gannon for this important question. Due to the rise in our population, it is important that we increase the number of spaces within prison. The Deputy asked me about measures that would increase decarceration and I will come to that presently, but it is important to say that more prison spaces are available in light of the increasing population and the ability of the authorities to prosecute serious offences and fine people who are convicted of those offences.
I am tabling proposals that will present further options to courts other than simply incarcerating a person who has been convicted of a criminal offence. As published in the general scheme of the miscellaneous provisions Bill last week, I identified that I wanted to, and am proposing to, change the terms of the Criminal Justice (Community Service) Act 1983. Currently, a judge is required to consider a community service order if a sentence of up to one year is being considered. I am going to extend that so that when a court is considering a sentence that carries a penalty of up to two years, the court must also consider a community service order. Similarly, I am going to extend the number of hours that can be imposed by way of a community service order from 240 to 480. These measures will be of assistance.
We need to increase capacity, but these measures are not incompatible. It is not as though we can only have measures for increasing prison space without trying to consider measures that will result in decarceration. Since 2022, capacity across the prison estate has increased by more than 300 new spaces - 134 spaces were delivered in the past 12 months - and more than 100 additional spaces will be added this year. This is a priority for me.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive response. I welcome the increase to two years for consideration of community service. However, we can waste any time when it comes to addressing the appalling and dangerous conditions in our prison system. Hundreds of people are sleeping on floors. The number of prisoners who have died in custody in Ireland has increased by 55% in the past year, up from 20 in 2023 to 31 last year. In many cases, the conditions in our prisons are nothing short of Dickensian, in that there is overcrowding. This is a serious failing of our criminal justice infrastructure.
Of course, consequences in certain cases should result in prison sentences but that should only be a part. Right now, prisons are filled with people serving short sentences for petty, non-violent crimes. We know these sentences do little to deter future offending. They push people further into a cycle of crime.
Meeting with people who have lived experience along with legal and justice groups makes it clear to me that judges are still handing down custodial sentences in cases where alternatives exist. There appears to be a lack of awareness and support in encouraging the use of non-custodial options.
Since I have been made Minister, I have been to Cork Prison, Cloverhill Prison and I am going to another prison on Monday. I intend to visit every prison, if I am lucky enough to survive in office for a sufficient period of time. It is important that the crisis be addressed. It is being addressed. I know that, to deal with the specific issue the Deputy mentioned about mattresses on the floor, bunk beds are now being purchased and implemented. That is important.
To be frank, I am not going down the route taken in England and Wales in the past nine months where a decision was made by the UK Government in response to the overcrowding crisis that serious offenders would be released from prison at a very early stage. That is not something I am considering. It would be inappropriate to do so. Considering the efforts made by victims' groups and the money we have put into An Garda Síochána and resourcing the courts, a great deal has been invested in the administration of the criminal justice system, not just financially, but also the emotional effort put in by many complainants in cases. I am not going to undermine that system by making a decision that we should just halve the sentences of people incarcerated for serious offences.
That is an incredible job of answering a question I did not ask. No part of my question, either in written form or in my contribution, referred to the release of people in prison for serious offences. I discount even the notion of that. However, while we are talking about increased populations, why do we not conduct an audit of who exactly is in our prisons? In the majority of cases, they are there because of addiction and for all sorts of issues for which prison is not the most useful means of rehabilitation. We are all looking for the same outcome, namely, places where people who engage in crime can have consequences that suit both their crimes and the communities impacted by their crimes. What we have is a conveyor belt of people who for various reasons - usually addiction - go into our prisons, sleep on floors and continue that addiction. They then come out of prison and reoffend because prison is traumatic. We are all asking whether that is the best approach. It clearly is not working.
I know the Deputy did not suggest the issue about releasing serious offenders. As part of my response, though, I have to be able to say that because it is an issue that people can legitimately put to me.
Regarding people with addiction, the Deputy is correct. Many of the people who are given prison sentences have addiction issues and chaotic lives. However, part of the reason judges sometimes sentence individuals who have addiction issues and chaotic lives to short terms of imprisonment is because judges think individuals can get some mandatory services provided to them there. That is part of the reason judges do that. We can ask the Irish Prison Service about it.
I agree with the Deputy that we need to try to provide better services out in the community to ensure we can treat addiction levels. Part of the problem is that there is no compulsion in respect of trying to get people to attend those courses and receive treatment for addiction services if they are out in the community.
That is part of the reason decisions are made for those short-term sentences.
I will also bring forward issues relating to electronic monitoring, particularly in respect of remand prisoners, that might reduce the numbers.
Family Reunification
120. Deputy Charles Ward asked the Minister for Justice when he will publish the review of the family reunification process that his Department recently undertook; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25027/25]
When does the Minister of State plan to publish the review the Department undertook on the family reunification process? I understand the review was completed months ago but still has not been published. I would be grateful if he could give an exact timeline as there are many people waiting on its publication.
Migrant workers make an enormous contribution to the Irish economy and society. It is a central priority for me, as Minister for State with responsibility for migration, that our immigrations laws are fair and efficient. An important part of this is having clear legal pathways for workers and their families.
My Department’s policy document for Non-EEA family reunification, which was last amended in 2016, is still under review. The policy document sets out the conditions for a sponsor to apply for a family member to be reunited with them in Ireland. In general terms, a sponsor must demonstrate their capacity to provide for their family member.
The review is examining a wide range of matters relating to applications for family reunification. Officials from my Department have consulted with a wide variety of stakeholders including relevant Departments and external organisations. While I cannot pre-empt the outcome, I can advise the Deputy it is my expectation that the next stage of the review will be brought to a conclusion soon. My officials will continue to engage with stakeholders regarding any amendments to the policy.
While I fully understand that some people moving to Ireland to live and work would wish to have their family join them, the issues to be examined as part of a family reunification application are complex. The primary focus is to ensure that a sponsor in a secure position and able to demonstrate a clear capacity to provide for family members before applications for family to join them here can be approved.
I can also advise that the first part of the review was implemented with effect from 15 May 2024. Eligible spouses and partners of people who hold general employment permits and intra-corporate transferee Irish employment permits, who have been granted family reunification, are now registered on a stamp 1G permission, rather than a stamp 3. This allows the holder to take up employment without the need to obtain a separate employment permit of their own.
Before I became a TD five months ago, I was a healthcare worker in a dementia unit. I had the privilege of working with healthcare workers from many different countries. Unfortunately, many of them are undergoing an horrific experience of being separated from their families, sometimes for years, because of the unfair family reunification system in this country. There are people who are doing essential jobs who have been recruited in Ireland because we cannot fill these jobs ourselves. These people are doing essential jobs and are part of our community. People are being denied their basic right to have their family with them because they do not earn a high enough salary because of the types of jobs the are in. Relationships are being torn apart. Everyone deserves to have their family with them when it comes to living and working in Ireland. Will the Minister of State undertake this essential work and please help these families? Will he commit to publishing this review as soon as possible and changing this unfair reunification system?
It is under review and I want to see that concluded as soon as possible and be able to come back on this. I take on board what the Deputy said but it is important that we ensure with family reunifications that financial thresholds in income are met for permit holders to be eligible to apply for their family to join and that it can be done in a proper and clear way. I take his points on board and when the review concludes I will come back to him.
I have been in touch with the Department about a healthcare worker whose family reunification application was refused because she took a brief drop in income last year due to her pregnancy. She should not be penalised for that or anything like that. It is a time when she should be able to access that family support. I ask the Minister of State to look into this woman’s appeal and to consider abolishing the income threshold for family reunification altogether.
I would like to take the opportunity to acknowledge our migrant healthcare workers and all the amazing work they do in our country. They prop up our healthcare system and it is time they get the recognition they deserve.
I also ask the Department to look into a specific case of a woman and her 13-year-old daughter who faces abuses and being married off by her father should she be forced to return to South Africa. This is an emergency case. I have emailed the Minister of State the details and I ask him to look into the details if he can.
I am acutely aware that for families involved in situations like this it is very important to them and it is very important that they have information. I again refer to what I outlined in reply to the Deputy earlier, namely that it is clearly an important part that someone has sufficient income to sustain a family reunification. A review is ongoing looking at all the processes involved. I will come back to the Deputy with the information as soon as I can.
Legislative Measures
121. Deputy Paula Butterly asked the Minister for Justice if he will commit to the removal of the provision that allows counselling notes to be used in all legal proceedings in the proposed general scheme of the Criminal Law and Civil Law Bill 2025; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25015/25]
I welcome the news that the general scheme of the criminal law and civil law Bill 2025 has now received Cabinet approval. Will the Minister commit to the removal of the provision that allows for counselling notes to be used in all legal proceedings?
I thank the Deputy for her question. One of the most difficult things I have to do as Minister for Justice, and indeed, that the House has to do, is to resolve issues around balancing conflicting constitutional rights. This is an issue where there are conflicting constitutional rights that need to be balanced but, as the Deputy indicated, that balance needs to be shifted legislatively in the near future. The balance of rights is twofold. On one hand, there is the right to privacy that people have in counselling notes when they go to a counsellor or psychologist and provide private information about their lives to that counsellor or psychologist. At first principles, we all assume that information will be kept private. On the other hand, there is the right of individuals to a fair trial if they are being prosecuted for a serious criminal offence that could result in them losing their liberty. We tried to balance these two rights in respect of the disclosure of counselling notes in 2017 in the sexual offences Act enacted then. Unfortunately, that Act did not achieve what we had wished to achieve. I want to amend section 19A of the legislation, and obviously it is up to the House as to whether that should happen, through the removal of subsection 17, which gives an entitlement to a complainant to waive their entitlement to object to the disclosure of counselling notes. I also wish, subject to advice from the Attorney General, to amend subsection 11 of section 19A by removing paragraph (a). The effect of these changes would be very beneficial. It would mean that if a person accused on an offence wanted access to counselling notes there would have to be a hearing in advance of the trial to determine whether he or she was entitled to them. The judge would have to look at them. There would not be an opportunity for a complainant to say that he or she would waive their right to objection. A judge would also only say that the notes had to be disclosed to an accused in circumstances where the judge thought a fair trial would not be possible if they were not disclosed.
I thank the Minister for that comprehensive answer. I understand fully the conflict he will face in trying to balance these rights. However, I want to point out the purpose of counselling notes. These notes are confidential. The are about helping victims on the road to recovery following a very traumatic and harrowing experience. The very idea that these notes could be exposed to the accused side, or indeed be used by the DPP to prove a case, is traumatic for them. Many counsellors, groups and victims have come to me and expressed their horror that this could continue again and again. Many have pointed out how this could impede victims coming forward. While I understand the balancing of rights is necessary to have a fair trial, I do not believe counselling notes have any place within a trial. Indeed, a recent Supreme Court judgement said there was no basis for the introduction of these notes on the basis of relevance.
I read that Supreme Court decision. One of the points mentioned by the court through Mr. Justice Collins was it was surprising that since 2017, when section 19A was enacted, there has not been a reported judgement on the hearing that should take place in respect of the challenge to counselling notes. I agree with the Deputy that it is very traumatic for someone to know that confidential counselling notes could be made available for the purpose of the defence of a criminal trial. None of us would like to see our medical records, let alone counselling notes, disclosed in a public realm.
That is why I intend to change the law. The changes that are being advocated will be of huge assistance to the individuals who say to the Deputy they are concerned about the trauma of being required to disclose counselling notes. At present, too many notes are being revealed unnecessarily. It has become a bit of a fishing expedition. That will stop. The only occasion upon which counselling notes will be disclosed, after the law is changed, will be if a court believes that if they are not disclosed, it would result in an unfair trial.
I fear I am being repetitive on this issue. However, I am very passionate about it because I am aware of the trauma it causes victims. While I understand the legislation will give power to the judge to use his or her discretion on whether to allow these documents to be accessed by any defence team, it will be very subjective. It will put the victim in the position, prior to any trial, of entering into the zone of the unknown and potentially having his or her details relived in court. That in itself could be an impediment to a victim getting justice at a trial and coming forward.
The Deputy is not being repetitive. On the intention of the proposed change, what will happen is a judge will look at a counselling note and make a decision on whether there is anything of relevance in it where, if it is not disclosed, it would result in an unfair trial. In most situations, it is highly unlikely that disclosure would then occur. However, what I cannot do, and I know some people want me to ask the Oireachtas to do this, is just have a blanket ban on disclosure of a certain category of documentation or certain type of evidence. If I did that, it would undermine the interests of victims of sexual violence more. It would mean there would be challenges to convictions. It would put a blanket ban on certain types of evidence. It has not been done previously and I have been advised by the Attorney General that it would be subject to, most likely, a successful challenge in the courts. That is something we have to be very hesitant about going down the avenue of, notwithstanding the requests of people to do so.