Ar dtús báire, ní aontaím in aon chor leis an Teachta. Is dóigh liom nach bhfuil sí ag insint na fírinne in aon chor sa mhéid a dúirt sí faoin Chief Whip. At the outset I wish to say that before this Dáil was convened, we were told - in no uncertain manner - that we faced a new era of total opposition. That was the Sinn Féin promise. When we met to fulfil our constitutional duty to appoint the Government, we saw the new model of total opposition includes making it impossible to do business unless the minority allows it. It involves refusing to respect basic rules and making extreme statements and false assertions, as we have just had. Since Dáil Éireann first met, its rules have changed hundreds of times. Many times these rules have been changed without agreement between all parties. We have regularly had votes on changes to parliamentary procedure. The concept of an Opposition veto is found nowhere in the democratic world.
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In this case, what we have is the profoundly antidemocratic demand that non-office holders be kept quiet if they support the Government.
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Yesterday, a number of Opposition spokespeople claimed no other country in the world would do this. It is a sad commentary on their approach that they would use such inflated language to make provably false claims. A basic review of democratic parliaments around the world shows that Ireland may in fact be the only one which refuses to allow Government-supporting TDs to ask priority oral questions.
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To give just a few examples; in Germany all non-Ministers have access to oral questions.
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The same is the case in France-----
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-----Finland and the Netherlands.
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I did not interrupt.
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In Australia, the practice is Government MPs get to ask half of all questions to the Prime Minister. In Sweden, the Prime Minister answers oral questions on alternate months and all MPs can participate.
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Deputy McDonald and Sinn Féin are not defending any democratic principle.
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You are promoting a destructive model of opposition.
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It is one which tries to import into this Chamber the loud hailer politics of the street, which many of you prefer to doing the business of the people and respecting all mandates. We have very serious issues facing this country. Next week, tariffs will be announced on Europe.
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We have a housing crisis-----
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-----yet this is the number one issue for Sinn Féin. It is what you have always done. You brought down the Northern Ireland Assembly when it suited you and the party's self-interest on a number of occasions.
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Your stated objective here is to undermine this institution, to undermine the Government, to reduce the Government majority-----
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----and to create mayhem. That is what you are about. Anybody who uses two fingers in this House to another person is wrong and that person should apologise.
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That would apply to Deputy Lowry. Equally, you should face up and acknowledge that any Deputy waving cameras in the face of other Deputies is wrong. That was never a part and parcel of Leinster House.
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Equally, the intimidatory barracking of newly elected TDs, be they Independent or not, simply because they support the Government is a new low that I have never witnessed before in this House.
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Whatever you think of Deputies Heneghan and Toole, they are newly elected Deputies. You have othered them, consistently pressurised them-----
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-----and put them under pressure.
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Your declaration of a lack of confidence in the Ceann Comhairle is a further instalment in your overall strategy, declared before this Dáil met, of total opposition.
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You will do everything to undermine the institutions of this State, to which you have never been very loyal in your long history.
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From the very get-go of this Dáil, you have made the life of the Ceann Comhairle impossible.
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I endeavoured to speak yesterday. There has been very little commentary on this but it will have been clear to anyone who watched this on television yesterday. I endeavoured to speak yesterday for three minutes in response to Deputy McDonald.
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Her Deputies, in a co-ordinated, strategic way, determined deliberately to make sure I did not get the opportunity to speak.
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Deputies Doherty and Carthy and so on were orchestrated to shout me down, barrack and not let me have the right to speak. That is what happened yesterday. New precedents have been set in this Dáil by your co-ordinated strategy.
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I know what you are about. You have been at it for a long time and your tactics are well known. However, they will be met by steel on this side of the House. You are not going to run the House, Deputy McDonald, and Sinn Féin will not run the House.
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I am open to working with people as I have over the past five years on an ongoing basis.
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I have been very clear from day one-----
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-----about what Sinn Féin has been about in this Dáil. It was manifest on day one.
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New precedents have been set. I do not believe this Dáil will ever be the same again-----
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-----because of what has transpired over the past few weeks. It will never be the same again.
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A prearranged what?
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I will say to the Deputy that the Chief Whip worked extremely hard for over 20 hours with the Whips of other parties to resolve this particular issue.
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By any stretch of the imagination it is stretching credibility to suggest that the resolution put forward by the Chief Whip in any way confers Opposition status on other TDs. I outlined that earlier when I reminded Deputy McDonald that in other parliaments it is a matter of form and norm that non-government deputies and government deputies who are not officeholders get to ask questions. The Deputy wants to deny that. What is the underlying issue here? That question has been asked. The underlying issue here is the formation of the Government.
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I remember reading the Irish Independent some time ago. Let us be honest - the only group of people who wanted to help to facilitate a Government was the regional Independents.
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The headline in the newspaper read: 'We'll meet big three, but with no intention of going into government' - Ivana Bacik rules Labour out of coalition. According to the article, it is recorded in the minutes of the Labour Party's national executive that they "will meet the big three as a courtesy, but with no intention of going into government".
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That is the reality facing the Dáil.
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The Labour Party had no sincerity about going into government, and neither did the Social Democrats. The Regional Independent Group wanted a Government formed. That is the bottom line here. There is an obligation to form a Government. Now, may I say-----
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-----just because people keep making false assertions-----
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-----that the Chief Whip never gave a nod?
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The nod became a thumbs-up.
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This is all Sinn Féin-speak, and now Deputy Bacik is parroting it. The Labour Party has tied itself to the hip of Sinn Féin and will regret it.
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I know the Labour Party a long time. I know a lot of ordinary Labour Party supporters who are not happy with the way it has become an appendage to the Sinn Féin Party.
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When Deputy Bacik used the phrase "prearranged"-----
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-----she was parroting the Sinn Féin false assertion.
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I do not mind Deputy Bacik having a different view - of course we all have different views and different perspectives - but-----
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-----she cannot make deliberately false assertions, just generally.
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It is false.
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There was nothing preconceived. The Ceann Comhairle has a responsibility that the business of the House gets done. The new tactic is this: if we shout loud enough, if we stop everybody on the Government side from talking and if we create mayhem and chaos, the Ceann Comhairle must then adjourn the Dáil and we get our way. That cannot be the new precedent either but that is what Sinn Féin has been doing from the very start.
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Yesterday, I acknowledged that Deputy Bacik stayed quiet at the beginning and allowed me speak and so on. Deputy Kelly broke loose at the end.
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The Deputy could not contain himself any longer. They stood up and joined the new-----
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I said what Deputy Lowry did was wrong but Deputy Bacik omitted to say what Deputy Paul Murphy did was wrong.
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Does Deputy Bacik not remember what Deputy Paul Murphy did to her former leader, Joan Burton? Does the Deputy not remember that?
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These are Deputy Bacik’s new allies. What Deputy Paul Murphy did yesterday in waving phones around was unacceptable behaviour in the Dáil.
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Equally unacceptable is the deliberate constant barracking and intimidatory behaviour.
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I respect the Labour Party but two aspects of Deputy Bacik’s behaviour in this Dáil concern me. The first is the Deputy’s lack of sincerity in terms of the whole government formation matter.
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The Deputy is refusing to call them by their proper titles and so on. That is a kind of othering I would not have expected from Deputy Bacik in times past.
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First of all, from day one this Government has been focused on the issues. I have been focused on the issues-----
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-----in terms of housing, disability and the economic challenges facing us and the geopolitical challenges – a war on our Continent that we all want to end on a fair and just basis, an end to the slaughter in Gaza and the violence across the Middle East and the need for a durable ceasefire there. By the way, the Government and Ministers have been going about their work, unlike Deputy Cian O’Callaghan. The Deputy and others in this House, over eight minutes a day for non-Government TDs, 60 of whom will probably get one opportunity a year, are saying that is the equivalent to the Opposition getting time every day. The Deputy’s party gets more time this time as compared to the last Dáil. They have chosen to make this the big issue, not the Government side.
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The Chief Whip endeavoured to get a reasonable solution because people are entitled to speak. People are entitled to ask questions as well in our view, irrespective of whether they are a Government TD or not. By the way, Government TDs have been saying this for a long time, in particular with their experience in the last Dáil where groups with two or three TDs get far more mandates than parties with 40 TDs. What has been going on in the Dáil since 2016 has not been proportionate, if people want my honest opinion. There is no proportionality in terms of parties with 30 plus or 40 plus members. We have had two or three people over there trying to dictate this Dáil for a long time. That is over. That is not going to happen anymore. Just get that into your head. What I will say to Deputy O’Callaghan is this-----
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Deputy O’Callaghan made no effort and he has to be honest here. The Deputy made no sincere effort to form a government.
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Deputy O’Callaghan trots out the line all of the time, laced with innuendo and suggestion, of "Who has something over you?" It is dark stuff and that is deliberate smearing by innuendo.
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On the only issue between this Government and the Independents, I will be honest about it. I have a record in this House of supporting stability and formation of government. I did it in 2016 with confidence and supply.
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We were involved in negotiating the programme for Government and I did it at a time when the country faced a significant threat from Brexit. We managed to facilitate a government, and no one said we should not have the rights of an Opposition in terms of tabling questions, even though we had negotiating influence on the budgets and so on. That happened because I believe governments should be formed after a general election. That is my motivation. Deputy O’Callaghan did not believe it. Deputy Bacik did not believe it. I do. I take it as a serious responsibility. The only group that came forward and that wanted to facilitate a majority in this House was the Regional Independent Group. What this is all about-----
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I am around long enough to know what this is about. This is not about feigned sort of democrat-----
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This is about reducing the majority of this Government from day one.
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There has been an effort here to undermine this Government from day one. That is what is afoot.
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I will come back-----
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Sorry, the bottom line is the deal was the formation of Government in terms of the programme for Government. The now Minister of State, Deputy Marian Harkin, went through the programme for Government line by line. Deputy Seán Canney, now Minister of State – all the independent group – went through the programme for Government. Deputy Michael Healy-Rae – Minister of State - went through the programme for Government. Deputy Danny Healy-Rae went through the programme for Government. That was the issue.
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Independent Ireland, for example, was not happy with aspects of the programme for Government and we were not prepared to accept some of the issues it wanted us to deal with. Independent Ireland actually had a decent discussion with us but there were some demands that we were not prepared to concede. But the Regional Independent Group went through it line by line. It was policy based but the Deputy will never accept that. He will just throw out the innuendo and the smear. “The deal.” It is great to be able to say it.
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The bottom line is ----
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On speaking time, no. And by the way, the Regional Independent Group would, I would say, prefer a far different arrangement than what is being proposed by the Chief Whip.
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In respect of what by any yardstick-----
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-----is a very modest rebalancing -----
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-----where you get eight minutes on a Wednesday, eight minutes on a Thursday.
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It is a joke.
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First, I stand over the Government’s record on Gaza. I do not accept the Deputy’s criticism on that.
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We have been very clear in our condemnation of Israeli violence in Gaza-----
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-----and equally of our condemnation of Hamas's atrocity on 7 October, something which the Deputy and her colleagues have never condemned which I think is a shame and a stain on you that you have never condemned what was an appalling slaughter of the innocents. It is noticeable that you have always refused to do that. Look at this morning. We have had Leaders’ Questions from whom? From Deputies McDonald, Bacik, Deputy Coppinger herself, Deputy O’Callaghan and others.
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The public will see all of this over the coming weeks. This is feigned outrage. It is very modest, the Deputy is correct. The Deputy asked a question. I am not dying in any ditch. I think it is a reasonable, balanced solution which took about 20 hours.
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By the way, the commitment of the former Chief Whip was to engage fully with the Dáil reform committee and to work to secure an agreement as soon as possible that was acceptable to the Government and Opposition. Not just Opposition but to the Government as well-----
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-----as regards formation of technical groups and the rights of unaligned Members.
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I have said the precedents that have been set by the Opposition of this Dáil will be very hard to overturn in future Dáileanna.
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I think this situation is a new departure. I will say why because the Deputies are going through the various procedures which a Ceann Comhairle was meant to do. The Ceann Comhairle, in my view, repeatedly asked Sinn Féin to table its amendment and it refused to do so.
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I was there; I witnessed it. Four times. The point I am making is this. If it is the tactic-----
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I was here yesterday and I endeavoured to respond to Deputy McDonald and, in an organised manner, the Sinn Féin Deputies in particular conspired to make sure that my voice could not be heard. The same thing happened to the Ceann Comhairle by any objective observation.
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The Ceann Comhairle stood up on a number of occasions. All of you were barracking, shouting, intimidatory behaviour, aggression. Deputy Doherty - there was naked aggression from you in your approach and posture.
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That is what I witnessed yesterday. It is form for you, too, by the way.
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That is very regrettable-----
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-----in my view and it is a precedent that has been set. It cannot be opposition by veto. This House cannot be run on the basis that if the Ceann Comhairle of the day, whatever Ceann Comhairle -----
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-----does not agree with the Opposition's perspective or approach then the Ceann Comhairle loses the confidence of the Opposition.
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This is not a normal Dáil. That is the precedent that is being set. I saw yesterday Sinn Féin in particular endeavouring to prevent procedures from being implemented, processed and properly followed through.
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The Ministers of State, Deputies Harkin, Grealish and Canney, and Deputies Toole, Heneghan, Nolan and McGrath - who have voted against the Government by the way-----
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Yes, and Deputy Lowry. I will just make the point that the only name that comes from you is Deputy Lowry, not the others. There is a problem there.
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We need as a Dáil to respect the mandate of every Deputy in this House.
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What I have witnessed over the last while is a very deliberate attempt to undermine the rights of certain Independents.
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There are other Independents, by the way. Other Independents need to be facilitated as well, in my view. That was part of what was meant to be in the facilitation of non-aligned TDs. By the way, many Opposition TDs come to meet me on different issues or they will raise issues with me. I will always try to respond, as do Ministers.
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We have always had that tradition in the House where we try to respond to issues that people will raise with us. I respect the mandate. People are elected here. Again I come back to this. The most fundamental obligation after a general election is to form a Government. I take that seriously, along with the Tánaiste.
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The Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael parties were short the requisite majority to form a Government that could last four to five years. That is the genesis of this in terms of the Regional Independent Group wanting to co-operate----
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