A Cheann Comhairle-----
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A Cheann Comhairle-----
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A Cheann Comhairle, I am taking issue with what has happened here today.
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I have not been allowed to address this in any shape or form-----
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-----and I have offered.
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For the record of the House, I offered to intervene-----
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----- and I have been refused.
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Ar dtús báire, is mian liom a rá gur uafásach ar fad é an méid atá tar éis tarlú, ní hamháin in Stoneybatter ach i rith an deireadh seachtaine. Déanaim comhbhrón le clann Quham Babatunde a fhuair bás agus leis an duine a bhí gortaithe mar aon leis sin. Níl sé sásúil gan amhras in aon chor. Tá plean ag an Rialtas agus ag an Aire Dlí agus Cirt, an Teachta Jim O’Callaghan chun an méid gardaí atá ann a mhéadú agus a dhéanamh níos láidre, chomh maith le dlíthe eile a thabhairt isteach. Beidh níos mó gardaí ar na sráideanna san am atá le teacht. Tá na huimhreacha ag méadú. Níl aon amhras faoi sin. Is olc an scéal é, áfach, nach bhfuil daoine in ann dul ag obair nó dul timpeall na sráideanna gan an baol agus dainséir seo go mbeidh ionsaí ann. Is uafásach ar fad é. I thank Deputy McDonald for raising this important issue with me. My thoughts are with the deceased, Quham Babatunde, and his family and friends, and the other victims. We also think of the victims of the attack in Stoneybatter, which was an appalling attack on people going about their daily lives leaving their homes and walking along the streets. One has to condemn the level of violence involved. We must be very clear and absolutely intolerant of people carrying knives in their possession if they go out for a night's recreation. This is a growing phenomenon. It is reprehensible and is putting the lives of people in danger. There is a wider societal piece we must focus on in respect of all the factors that give rise to the level of violence we are experiencing and which individuals are getting involved in. The Deputy raises a valid question regarding the bail laws. It is clear to me that people should not be granted bail if there is a risk they might commit a serious crime or offence. The bail laws have been comprehensively strengthened in recent years by a series of Acts in 2007, 2015 and 2024 in terms of increased penalties. The Courts, Civil Law, Criminal Law and Superannuation Act 2024 increases the penalties for several knife-related offences under the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990. That includes an increase of five to seven years in the maximum sentence for the offences of possession of a knife, trespassing with a knife and producing a knife to unlawfully intimidate another. In respect of our bail laws, the decision to grant bail in a particular case, as the Deputy knows, is solely a matter for the judge. There are various guidelines the court must have regard to, particularly any persistent serious offending by an applicant and, in specific circumstances, the nature and likelihood of any danger to a person or to the community arising from the granting of bail. I accept we must keep the bail laws under constant review for both the constitutional rights of individuals but also the rights of citizens, victims and potential victims of people who commit crime on bail. That is something the Government will continue to assess. If we can make it tighter, we will, but obviously in a way that is constitutionally allowed. The bottom line is there is no tolerance on the Government side in respect of these crimes. They are reprehensible and should be condemned.
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There is no laissez-faire. Níl sé sin fíor. We have a robust legal framework to deal with knife crime. As I said, in September we increased the maximum penalty. There is a proactive policing operation to seize knives. There has been an increase in the number of knives being seized each year and that proactivity will continue. Again, we have to support the Garda. We have to give more resources. There is good CCTV of the violent disorder in South Anne Street, for example, but our Garda force should be able to use facial recognition technology. That was opposed in the previous Oireachtas. I hope the Opposition will support the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, when we bring legislation of that type forward and other legislation designed to strengthen gardaí on the front line, especially body-worn cameras, the proof-of-concept phase of which is under way in Dublin, Waterford and Limerick. We want to roll these out to all gardaí on the front line. There has not always been a welcome for such measures in this House, if the truth be told, but there will be total proactivity. Numbers have increased by 40% in the Dublin metropolitan area over the past-----
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The Opposition has a habit of making assertions that are not grounded in any facts. I challenge Deputy Bacik-----
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It is telling a falsehood, yes. I challenge Deputy Bacik-----
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-----to find any statement where I said I would end RPZs and replace them with nothing. That is what she just said. I challenge her to find that statement for me and present it because it is a deliberate distortion of what I said. The Housing Agency began a review of RPZs last year - not me, the Housing Agency. The expiry date is the end of this year. The Housing Commission says the same thing but Deputy Bacik now challenges me to go back to the Housing Commission. It is in the Housing Commission report about reference pricing. Threshold wrote to every party in its election manifesto saying we should go that route. We have not decided to do that, by the way. Is it possible to have a debate on housing without name calling?
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I did not interrupt the Deputy and I did not finish my statement but, again, the heckling starts because the Opposition does not like what it is hearing.
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Is it possible to have a serious debate, which the people deserve, on housing without the name calling and attempts to politically undermine and distort what is being said? I do not think it is possible to have such a debate with the Opposition, given the Deputy's contribution just now and her misrepresentation of what I said publicly. I will say again that the last Government moved from a situation where we were doing approximately 20,000 houses in 2020 to more than 30,000 houses in 2022, 2023 and 2024. Some 130,000 houses have been built since the last Government was formed in 2020. That was a step change compared with what had been achieved in the preceding five years. It turned a corner but that is not enough. The Housing for All plan exceeded its targets and when it did so, the Opposition's response was to say the targets were not good enough or high enough.
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There are two types of targets. There is what we need-----
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Does the Opposition not want this debate?
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The people did not buy Deputy Ó Broin's stuff in the election. They just did not buy it.
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The Deputy persuaded nobody.
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The Deputy persuaded nobody with his codswallop of a set of proposals.
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There is what we need, and we need 50,000 houses per year according to the ESRI.
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The question then is how we get there. I will say again that the Department of Finance and everybody else says that we need approximately €20 billion in development funding for housing. At the moment, the State is spending €6 billion.
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Sorry-----
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If the rest of you could start telling us how to fill in the gaps and get to the €20 billion-----
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No, you will not do it happily.
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All the Opposition does is to say "No" to everything.
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I would welcome an engagement with the Deputy on housing-----
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-----but please, less of the misrepresentation.
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I was talking about what the Deputy said to me.
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With the greatest of respect, Deputy, you had an opportunity to go into government but you did not show up.
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Yesterday, the housing subcommittee of the Cabinet met. We made some concrete decisions in respect of housing. There will be an additional €450 million of funding to build a further 3,000 affordable and social homes, and cost rental accommodation. We made the decision to establish a strategic housing activation office, as recommended by the Housing Commission, of which the Deputy is fond. That was decided and that is what we are doing. In addition, we have agreed the first revision of the national planning framework, which is extremely important in facilitating increased zoning of land to enable us to provide more houses. That will be published. I would appreciate the support of the Dáil in getting that through.
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The county development plans will allow us to reach, or give us a fighting chance of reaching, the targets identified by the ESRI.
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As I said earlier, yesterday the Government took a number of key decisions on the national planning framework, which is key - I hope the Deputy agrees – and will lead to more zoning of land which is important given the numbers of houses that we have to build in the coming years. We approved an additional €450 million for 3,400 social, cost rental and affordable homes. In excess of €6 billion has been allocated for housing in State expenditure for 2025. We need about €20 billion to get to 50,000 per annum. That is the scale of the challenge. I respect the views the Deputy has put forward but I respectfully suggest they may not reach that gap in the level of investment we require. I think the Irish banks should do more and I think the cost of financing house building is an issue. I also say without apology that we must look at mechanisms to bring an increased level of private sector investment into house building. Any attempt to deny that is flying in the face of reality. I have noticed a reluctance on the Deputy’s side to even accept that premise. I get condemned for even suggesting that we should increase the level of private sector investment in housing as if I am committing some sin in saying that and then Deputies jump to all sorts of conclusions. Then I get accused of saying things because I am listening to lobbyists. I have not met half the lobbyists that people on the Opposition benches have met.
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They might be doing it in the best interests of housing but you cannot say one thing and then have it both ways, as Deputy Ó Broin has been doing serially. I will look at that and I will discuss with the Deputy mechanisms around utilising that €160 billion he spoke about and how we release more private sector capital into housing. That is what I have been saying since this Government was formed. That is what I have been condemned for, by the Deputy's colleagues and others, but it is a simple truism. The State will not be able to spend the €20 billion to get to the 50,000 houses per annum. Maybe we can go over €6 billion - there will be discussions within Cabinet - but you are not going to get to the levels required. Therefore, we have to be creative. Yesterday's housing sub-committee also indicated that will be a number of other areas that we are now going to pursue in respect of activating and incentivising private sector development, particularly on brownfield sites. In the previous Government, all of us agreed on sustainable housing development. Key to that was the idea that we would develop brownfield sites. They have not taken off. Prior to that, they had not taken off the previous ten or 15 years. They make sense, given services available, given the rejuvenation of cities, etc. As far as I am concerned, everything has to be considered to enable us to get brownfield sites developed, in particular in the cities.
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First of all, I would say that the volume of new homes built in the past five years represents the highest level of delivery since 2008 - almost two decades ago. That is a fact, but it is not enough. I never mentioned section 23 relief. In the past month, I never mentioned it. I repeat I was in government for the past four and a half years. Decisions were taken. Brownfield sites have not moved to the degree that they should. You can keep your heads in the sand all you like but we are going to have to work-----
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-----on how we activate brownfield sites because they make sense. At present, we are being told, they are not viable. At present, the apartment building is not happening, in particular in cities, to the degree that is necessary to give people a chance of either owning an apartment or renting an apartment at an affordable rate. We want to give opportunities to young people-----
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-----to either rent or to buy at affordable rates. That is our agenda.
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First of all, the Deputy is referring to the publication of the Commission on the Regulation of Utilities large energy users connection policy minded-to decision paper. It is a mouthful, but it is an important document. It is not as the Deputy has described it, by the way. I think a lot of people on the industrial side might see a bit of progress in this but it will take a lot of detailed reading. It seems to me that the hard left in this country - the Deputy represents that - decided some time ago that data centres were to be the new enemy of the people, in our economy and in society. I have watched in here as, one after another, Deputies have started to ratchet up language about the threat data centres pose. At first, it did not make any sense to me because the Deputy is as prolific a user of the services provided by data centres as anybody else is - probably more so. The new hostility to data centres is about the manifestation of the Deputy's eternal struggle against the great western capitalist evil. That is what it is. I ask the Deputy a simple question. He is hostile to the economic model, and that is fair enough. He does not agree with the economic model that has grown Ireland over the past 50 years, but we need to have sustainable development of our energy and data network. The CRU itself describes data centres as "a core infrastructure enabler of a technology-rich, innovative economy". We can ban data centres in their entirety but we need to follow up by asking the hard questions of what happens to the economy, workers and industry.
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Are we saying we do not want to participate in the AI revolution? The AI revolution is the most profound economic revolution currently occurring since the 19th century industrial revolution. It is, but it has a problem.
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AI uses enormous amounts of energy. That is a problem. The US says it will be fossil fuels. The French say it will be nuclear power. Ireland will have wind energy but there will be a gap in between. When the wind starts to flow - offshore wind in particular - we hope there will 5 GW by 2030 and more in 2031 and 2032. We cannot shut the door on data centres in an absolutist way, which is what the Deputy is essentially proposing. We would damage our economy if we did that. It would damage workers in particular and their prospects for the future. We would be sending a signal that we do not want to participate in an evolving, growing, innovative economy that will develop despite us. There will be massive investment in AI across Europe.
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We need to solve the problems that the data centres throw up, and they do throw up challenges.
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Sorry?
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Not my half a minute.
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I care about climate just as much as Deputy Murphy does.
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I also care about workers. I am not so sure Deputy Murphy does, really.
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The CRU has issued its paper. It bears reflection if people want to read it and tease it through. I have never believed that, when we have new technological innovations and fundamental change, you should turn your back on it, pretend it is not happening and go into some sort of cocoon where you are happy with yourself. That is not the real world. The only issue with LNG is energy security. It is not about a facility in Kerry or anywhere else. The nation has security vulnerability if anything happens to our gas pipeline. That is the bottom line that we need to address.
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