The Deputy heard from the Minister for Transport, Deputy O'Brien, the last day. He is pressing the recurring button the whole time.

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I was there last week.

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I welcome the students from Fermoy and their teachers. The summer holidays are ag teacht. Go n-éirí leo. I thank Deputy McCarthy for this very important question. The Minister, Deputy Calleary, and I are working together in the context of the community services programme, which supports 453 services nationally through 434 community organisations to provide local social, economic and environmental services through a social enterprise model, with a budget of around €59.4 million. The requirement placed on organisations to provide audited annual financial statements comes from the Department of public expenditure and reform, through Circular 13/2014 on the management of and accountability for grants from Exchequer funds. Certain qualifying small-sized companies, including social enterprises, may be exempted from the full extent of the provision of annual financial statements to the Companies Registration Office, CRO. They are, however, required to provide audited financial accounts to their funding bodies if they are in receipt of Exchequer funding, in line with the Department of public expenditure's circular. The detailed financial information contained in audited annual financial statements enables Pobal, which administers the programme on behalf of my Department, to monitor the financial performance of supported organisations, to review the notes to the audited accounts and to rely on the independent audit assurances provided. The abridged accounts acceptable under the CRO exemption would not contain this detailed information. In addition, the funding model introduced for the community services programme, CSP, in 2023 includes the level of retained income as one of the criteria used in determining the appropriate funding category to meet the funding needs of organisations. The abridged accounts that are permissible under the CRO exemption would not contain such necessary details. On foot of the Deputy's question and ongoing conversations with him, I am aware of the additional costs being incurred by organisations in fulfilling this requirement. I fully understand, given my previous role as a member of a GAA club, that the cost incurred has increased over recent years. The Minister and I have asked officials in our Department to consider whether there are options available to support small-sized organisations.

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The Deputy is absolutely right. All of us, in particular, the Minister and I, accept there is a responsibility, in terms of accountability and transparency, on organisations in receipt of public money. In saying that, if putting an onus and a financial burden on small community groups and organisations that get grants to be compliant with accounting procedures results in them spending a significant proportion of their grant on meeting that requirement, it defies the purpose of the grant scheme and the funding support to these organisations. However, none of us want to see the wild west when it comes to irregularities. We will have people coming into the House today who will question us on financial responsibility and the roles and functions of directors of companies. I know there is a burden and we will come back to that.

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The Deputy may have heard the Minister and me speak this morning about the amount of money we are spending on community development and the importance of community. We are very much aware of the auditing requirement for moneys that are allocated and given and the need for transparency and accountability. In saying that, the Deputy has outlined, and we know from our own experiences, that some of the costs being incurred by organisations in fulfilling their duties and requirements do not make sense. The Minister and I have asked officials in the Department to examine options whereby we could support smaller CSP-funded organisations in this regard. We fully accept the responsibility and duties but we hope Pobal and our Department will engage with CSP-supported organisations, which have raised concerns in recent weeks.

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I thank Deputy McGuinness for this very important question. He is right that Dr. Shane Conway in the University of Galway is taking a future-looking approach. I am aware of the initiative and know there is a similar synergy and relationship in the State of Pennsylvania. I certainly hope to explore that further. I will happily talk further to the Deputy away from what is happening in the Chamber because this is a social initiative for older farmers. As the Deputy well knows, farmers do not just retire. They have a lifelong love and grá for the land, farming and agriculture. The Government recognises the importance of this scheme, but also the well-being aspect and the issue of addressing socialisation. I met the Deputy in Waterford. He mentioned the great work being done by community organisations to combat deprivation and social isolation. This is something the Government should look at further. It is the responsibility of the Minister for agriculture in the main, but it is about the farming community and working across the Government. For example, the Minister, Deputy Calleary, referred earlier to Our Rural Future. I am happy to converse further with the Deputy because what we are trying to do is to keep people on the land. It is about succession planning and ensuring we have regeneration and a new uptake of farming. In Pennsylvania, a similar conversation is taking place. The On Feirm Ground initiative provides training for agricultural advisers and service providers. It helps them to recognise the importance of health and well-being. It works also with women's sheds and men's sheds initiatives. We have had conversations during questions previously about the seniors alert scheme.

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I will conclude on this point. We need to continue this conversation. Perhaps the Department and the committee could do further work on it as well.

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As the Minister outlined earlier, the approach being taken by the Government in Our Rural Future is one that we are looking to develop in terms of taking action to support further rural development and initiatives such as those we discussed this morning to combat social isolation. I will happily chat further with the Deputy on the matter.

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