My colleague Deputy Toole cannot make it to the Chamber as she is stuck in traffic. She asked me to convey her hope that some of the extra funds that become available as a result of the wind-down of NAMA will be ring-fenced for projects in her constituency. She hopes the Navan rail project, for which a preferred route was announced today, is one of the projects for which the funding now arising out of this sorry saga is ring-fenced. I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this Bill, which brings about the final winding down of NAMA and the transfer of all remaining matters to the NTMA. As I have said many times in this House, the legacy of NAMA is a trail of destruction left behind for families, villages and towns across the country. Under the guise of a workout vehicle, it has been the most economically destructive agency in Ireland's history. It has been the catalyst for the disastrous housing crisis that has plagued us. I said that last night and have been saying it for the past year. I pay tribute to the late Brian Lenihan for the efforts he made. I said to him here late one night that NAMA was like a wild animal being released in the woods and no one knew where it would end up. There are very many human stories arising out of NAMA, many of which are still unresolved. There have been many claims of corruption and fraudulent activity, which has gone on without anybody being held to account. NAMA has a very poor history. No State-sponsored and State-staff vehicle should be able to perform fraudulent activities without being held accountable or punished. I want to put on the record again one of those human stories, as I have many times before. I refer to the story of John Fraher, an excellent businessman from Clonmel, County Tipperary. I have raised his case directly with the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, the finance committee and the head of Revenue. The issue continues to be ignored and swept under the carpet. The fear with NAMA being dissolved is that issues like this will remain firmly under the carpet and there will be no accountability for anyone. John Fraher has received a letter from Revenue that is quite alarming. I have to hand a document from which I will quote the following paragraph: I have raised the matter of fraudulent transactions involving NAMA in the past and the matter is so serious that it brings into focus the reason that NAMA was staffed by NTMA employees. It is a perfect case of a Department of Finance-sponsored system that could perform transactions and would never be prosecuted or held to account as the gatekeeper and enforcement agency of the State was compromised from the start. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for his excellent work in this area. I also must mention the Butler family in Clonmel, who were blackguarded. Many families have been destroyed. There have been marriage separations and families split. Many people have taken their own lives. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for his work at the finance committee and for being brave in trying to get answers. The document in my hand further states: "The Department of Finance could control each element of the system and ensure that each transaction was rubber-stamped by Revenue, regardless of whether it was legal or not". That is hard to understand. I now refer to a Revenue Commissioners' Collector General receipt, dated 21 February 2015, notice No. 0973138/001310. This receipt was provided to National Asset Loan Management Limited. The receipt was based on a ROS payment dated 16 February 2015 made by National Asset Loan Management Limited. NAMA attached a letter to Revenue to explain the payment made. The letter was signed by a Ms Teresa Talbot, head of tax. In regard to the letter dated 16 February 2015, the details provided to Revenue are not true. They are downright false. The Chairman of Revenue is fully aware of the 2015 transaction I am referring to. The fraudulent scheme began with a false transaction that allowed a sequence of transactions to occur which involved, among other things, VAT fraud. I raised this here countless times. An Garda Síochána told me it cannot investigate it. The EU Commissioner, the Minister of State's former colleague, raised this question here on several occasions as finance spokesman before he left to go to his European post. Another example of a Revenue-generated document that arises from the original fraud by the National Asset Loan Management Limited is a stamp duty certificate dated 13 April 2015, stamp certificate ID150441576/81B3090415/J. The Department of Finance is attempting to destroy any trace of fraudulent activities by removing NAMA and its various entities and providing cover for all State employees who carried out or assisted in that fraud. This is a shocking situation that we are passing Second Stage of this Bill today. There are families who are traumatised. As others have said, we are paying the USC, which was a temporary measure to pay for all of this. There was fraud, money was made and illegal transactions were carried out and a blind eye was turned to this. It is just a shocking vendetta. The Bill dissolves NAMA and transfers everything, including unresolved litigation which will extend beyond the formal wind down of the agency but it will not take into account the fraudulent activities which happened under its watch. I ask the Minister of State to answer those questions. There are many Johnny Frahers in this country, as I said. I could name dozens of them. We had the Clonmel Arms project. I called it project jackdaw. There was scurrilous interference with properties of NAMA. We got the information when there was a buyer trying to buy it. The Butler family was mentioned. I know countless families from all over the country as the Minister of State must too. Michael Noonan would not talk to anyone at the time and said the vulture funds were necessary. Anyone who rears sheep or knows anything about country living knows the vulture is the most despicable bird or creature given its very name. He told his own backbenchers to ignore any families that came to them. We had the case of a wonderful auctioneer in Cashel, Mr. De Vere Hunt, who ended up in his grave as a result of NAMA. His wife came in to testify in front of the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, who was Chair of a committee, but it was blocked. It was thanks to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle that she came in for a private session and had her say. People were brought to tears listening to her story. There are hundreds of those stories up and down the country. These are lives wrecked and ruined. When the Government tells us the NTMA will now take over all remaining matters, what guarantees do people like Mr. Fraher and the other families have that their cases will finally be treated fairly and people will be held to account for any wrongdoing? What assurances are there that the mistakes of NAMA will not simply be inherited and quietly buried? I think that is what is going to happen. I am very concerned about it. The Bill states that the NTMA will be substituted for NAMA in all proceedings and that no cause of action will be taken against the NTMA solely by reason of the transfer. That is a nice way of getting out of all of this and leaving it behind. That may protect the State but who protects the citizens who have been destroyed by this? Who protects the people who pay the USC every week? Nobody does. This is a shocking vista. We are now going to have it all buried and we are going to pay the CEO even though there is no job for him in the NTMA. We are going to give him more than €400,000 a year. In God's name, are the lunatics running the asylum? Are we so badly off and unaccountable that we allow this to happen? Who ensures that the unresolved grievances - and there are thousands of them - the very ones I have raised for years are not lost in the reshuffle? There is a deliberate ploy that we will be lost. I want to be very clear I am not opposing the idea of winding down NAMA. I opposed it being set up. I am worried that proper transparency and accountability will not transfer with it. I am opposing the attempt to use this dissolution as a way of dissolving responsibility. The people affected by NAMA and the citizens deserve closure, support, counselling and to have some modicum of their lives back. Transparency is essential but it is a very scarce item in this House with this Government and with successive governments. Too much of NAMA’s work was hidden behind confidentiality. If we are closing this chapter, the truth must be allowed to come out. Some media outlets have shown interest here but editorials will not allow them to publish it. The fear of the big hand, the might of money and the threats is there. I will continue to raise this case and others like it until the State acknowledges the human cost of decisions made by NAMA and IRBC. I will support any measure that brings fairness, accountability and closure but I will not support a process that simply dissolves the entity while dissolving responsibility along with it. We have to be very careful here. This is a nice, glossy Bill. I heard the Minister of State’s speech and other speeches as well. I know of so many cases. I raise the case of the Poppyfield Retail Park in Clonmel. That scheme was the brainchild of Mr. Fraher. I refer to what went on there and the transfer of lands and yet hotels are operating without planning permission and no fire certificate. I do not want to damage a hotel that provides a great service and has great employees but I refer to the sheer corruption with the transfer of that land, money changing hands and it being all hush hush. You cannot get answers. An Garda Síochána is refusing to investigate this. I was told by the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and others to go to the gardaí. Revenue has refused to meet Mr. Fraher, me or anyone. It is hoping this will all go away like snow off a ditch. There will be a long summer, and thank God the weather is picking up today. However, this is not going to go away. It was wrong from the start but it is even more wrong now that we would push this aside and place it into this new agency that we do not have faith in either and give the employees there carte blanche and good jobs. It is shocking. Again, I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle, who was one of the Government TDs who tried to assist families. He and I met with some of them. We have Professor Honohan's report and what he brought to light and the total unfairness in the courts.

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