The Minister of State is saying we should just trust this Government on the basis the investor court system is now better than ISDS and all we know that is wrong there. The Energy Charter Treaty and the fact that everyone with any element of sense is moving away from it has been mentioned by many. The Antin versus Spain case relates to giving big business the ability to take a state to the cleaners. That is the reality. The Australian case is the always the first one brought to people's attention and while I accept Australia eventually won, it is about the idea of big tobacco in the form of Phillip Morris even taking that case. Even though Australia won, it did so at a huge cost and the case ran from 2011 to 2015. Let us not pretend that did not impact on other countries, and even on Australia, by chilling it from taking necessary action be it on environmental, health, workers' rights or human rights grounds. That is the problem. What are we getting? What is the advantage of this investor courts system? Am I wrong in thinking CETA is already in operation with respect to the trade elements, which are the parts the Government keeps saying are wonderful? We are all in favour of free trade and of building up those necessary relationships and ensuring we facilitate business across the board but what is the advantage of the investor court system? Most people would ask why we should take a chance on this. I do not see any advantage in any way, shape or form. If any company is found to be in a circumstance where it has been wronged by rule changes and there has been an element of unfairness is the Minister of State telling me Irish or European law does not have the capacity to deal with that? Is he saying a company from here would not be able to deal with that through the Canadian courts? Is that what we are talking about? From what I see the Government is literally giving the power to big business and big corporations and not even from a point of view of screwing over the small guy but from screwing over us as a State. We are talking about the fact the Government could literally have its lights put out, or have the absolute fear of having its lights put out. We know for sure that many governments, and we could even possibly say it about this Government, have obviously been impacted by the fear of taking action on particular legislation and how it would go down in Washington or anywhere else. I am certainly not talking about the occupied territories Bill.
Sentiment score: 0.14
That is the reality. What I am saying is that the one thing we have seen, and whether we call it ISDS or the investor court system, with all the nuances, changes and added bells, it is still a rose or a briar by another name. That is all we are talking about here. I am asking the Minister of State whether he can ensure us that all the worries on this side of the of the House will not happen. Can he tell me the advantage to us in passing this legislation and in relation to the investor court system? Can he assure us in respect of all the worries he says we are over-egging? Everyone would trust anything this Government told them anyway, and you could see that over the past period of time. This was the Government that said it was not going to provide any sort of supports or mitigations at the start of the week but by the end of the week, having dealt with its backbenchers, some of the Independents and the pressure put on by people, it moved.
Sentiment score: 0.10
That is all I am saying. I suppose it had a chilling effect of sorts. I want to know from this Minister of State what advantage there is to us, the Irish people, to this Government or to any future Irish Government of having the investor court system in play. With other treaties, we have seen states walking away. Do we intend to do it ourselves in relation to not being shackled by what you can only say is corporations being facilitated to "chill"? I was going to use a term that I probably should not use in the House. I refer to forcing a government into a situation where it may not go ahead with legislation that may be beneficial to the people out of fear that a major corporation using this leverage of the ICS will put its lights out from a financial point of view. This is the first time the Ceann Comhairle will have seen me do this. I am handing my speaking time back with a minute and 44 seconds on the clock.
Sentiment score: 0.05
I get what the Minister of State says about the right to regulate and having certain protections. He has already stated that he believes the investor court system is an improvement on the old ISDS but I still have not heard anything that settles me in regard to the fact that there is any advantage to us signing up to this and that it does not leave this State open to the possibility of big corporations being able to put its lights out from a financial point of view and to have a detrimental impact on everything from regulation to legislating from a point of view of improving people's lives, whether we are talking about everything from housing to the environment to health. It is basically encompassing the entirety of the work done in a Chamber like this and beyond. That is my problem. My particular issue is that I do not see any advantage to it. My understanding is that those trade elements that we are all benefitting from are in operation at this point and there is nothing negatively impacting on them. Look at where we are talking about. We are talking about Canada and this State within the European Union. Somebody is going to tell me that there is not a sufficient amount of legislation or a sufficient number of frameworks to deal with issues that may exist if a company feels it is wronged. I do not believe, however, we need to give them a battering ram from the point of view that it can put its lights out and make us think twice or three times about not going ahead with necessary legislation or regulation.
Sentiment score: 0.09
I will not take very long. There is an element of repetition at this stage. I would ask, as Deputy Ó Laoghaire has, that there would be an answer on how we ended up with a guillotine at the close of business. A lot of us enjoy playing soccer and wanted to talk about volunteerism and the need to invest in football but we could have done that at any other time. This is legislation with incredibly worrying aspects. The Minister of State is going to talk about protections that were put in place on the basis that the ISDS and investor court systems leave us open and susceptible to corporations that will be able to take action against the State and may have a chilling effect on governments from the point of view of acting in pursuit of what is the social good, or any sort of good, in a wide range of particular issues. We all accept that we are not in an age of absolute national sovereignty but we would like to think that we would maintain as much power as we could from the point of view of being able to regulate, legislate and do the best for our people. In saying this, I do not think governments have always done this but they should have the capacity and the ability to do it. I do not see the advantage and I do not see what gain we get. When we are talking about trade, as far as I can see all of the positives of CETA are in operation as we speak. The framework exists for corporations to get their absolute rights vindicated in the court systems that exist here, in Canada and throughout the EU.
Sentiment score: 0.22